Trouble with Documents

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Shrugs05
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Trouble with Documents

Postby Shrugs05 » 30 May 2008, 21:10

Hello all,

I have ran into a wall on my research. I mailed a letter few weeks ago to the Comune di Casalbore (where my great-grandfather was born) and I got the following reply today:

In riferimento alla vostra nota del 22 maggio 2008,si comunica che dopo
esperite ricerche nei registri degli atti di nascita di questo Comune dal
1859 al 1871,non risulta nessun VIGLIONE Giulio neto verso il 1885.

Cordiali saluti --IL RESPONSABILE SERVIZI DEMOGRAFICI-Oriana MUCCILLO


What do I do now? I am confused because according to the ship manifest on Ellis Island, it said Casalbore. If my great-grandfather was not born in this city and somewhere else, where do I look? Whom do I contact or what do I do now to obtain my great-grandfather's birth and marriage license from Italy? Suggestions? Thanks and I greatly appreciate it.

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BillieDeKid
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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby BillieDeKid » 30 May 2008, 23:39

Hi Shrugs

Was he married when he came here? If so Casalbore might be the town of his wife and where he go married.

Can you post the manifest so forum members can take a look. Maybe it will give us some clues so we can assist you.

Also please list as much detail as possible, his full name, who he married (maiden name), children etc. and approximate birth years. Any info you can supply would be great.

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Shrugs05
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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby Shrugs05 » 31 May 2008, 00:02

Hi BillieDeKid,

That is possible. I never thought of that. My GGF could have just got married in Casalbore.

Here is the manifest:
First Name: Giulio
Last Name: Viglione
Ethnicity: Italy, Italian South
Last Place of Residence: Casalbore, Italy
Date of Arrival: Mar 29, 1911
Age at Arrival: 27y
Gender: M
Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Florida
Port of Departure: Naples
Manifest Line Number: 0007


Now, my GGF's name here is the States was Julius George Viglione and he was born on 07/03/1885. He was married when he immigrated and his wife was Angeline; however, I do not know her maiden name. I hope this helps and thanks for helping me. I appreciate it a lot.

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Biff83
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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby Biff83 » 31 May 2008, 00:10

Hi Elizabeth, :D

This might be the correct manifest: Giulio Viglione
Page 1
Page 2

Looks like there should be another manifest since he states he was in the US before. Last residence and place of birth is the same.

Baci,
Biff
"To dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free, silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands"

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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby Biff83 » 31 May 2008, 00:25

1912 Boston manifest for Angelina Recce Viglione and daughter Grazia, lines 18 and 19
Page 1
Page 2
Vessel Canopic arrival Boston 12 Mar 1912
Angelina, age 27, last residence and place of birth Casalbore
Grazia, age 1, last residence and place of birth Casalbore
Nearest relative in Italy, father Vincenzo Recce in Casalbore
Destination, Youngstown OH to join husband/fther Giulio Viglione

Biff
"To dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free, silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands"

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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby Biff83 » 31 May 2008, 00:35

1930 census for Julius and Angelina Viglione and family

1222 Grandview
Youngstown, Mahoning, OH
Julius Viglione, head, age 43, naturalized
Angeline Viglione, wife, age 42, naturalized
Rose Viglione, daughter, age 17, born OH
Cives? Viglione, son, age 14, born PA
Concetta Viglione, daughter, age 12, born OH
Margaret Viglione, daughter, age 10, born OH
Chester Viglione, son, age 8, born OH
James Viglione, son, age 4 5/12, born OH
Sam Palloffa , roomer, age 35

WWI Draft Registration Card for Giulio Viglione
Name: Guilio Viglione
St Address: 1222 Grandview
City: Youngstown
County: Mahoning
State: Ohio
Birthplace: Casalbore Italy
Birth Date: 11 Jul 1886

Biff
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vj
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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby vj » 31 May 2008, 00:36

Another record in case you don’t already have it
Valarie

From FamilySearch Labs

Death Certificate
- has parent's names
- no birth location
- birth date doesn’t match WWI Card

1917 WWI Draft Registration Card
born 11 Jul 1886
same address as Biff's :D census find for 1930

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Biff83
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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby Biff83 » 31 May 2008, 00:52

Hey, Valarie :D :D !!

Nice find on Julius' death record. FamilySearch site seems to be adding more info each week.

Baci,
Biff
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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby Biff83 » 31 May 2008, 01:00

"To dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free, silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands"

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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby vj » 31 May 2008, 01:07

Hey Biff!
Nice find :D
The FamilySearch files are amazing!
Valarie

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Shrugs05
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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby Shrugs05 » 31 May 2008, 02:37

Great findings people! This is helping me a lot. But I have questions...

1) On my GGF's death certificate, it says he was born 7/3/1885 but yet his draft card say 7/11/1886; which one is correct?

2) My GGM's maiden name is Recce on the Boston manifest but yet it says Reeci on the infants death certificate; which one is correct?

3) Again with my GGM, is it Angeline or Angelina? One document says the earlier and another the latter.

4) When did my GGF and GGM become naturalized? I ask, because I'm trying to apply for Dual-Citizenship.

Last but not least...

5) Why would Casalbore tell me that my GGF was not born there when records show he was? I'm confused.

Again, I cannot express in words how much this is helping me. If my GGF naturalized before my GF's (James J. Viglione) birth, I cannot gain DC w/Italy. Bummer if that is true. :(

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misbris
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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby misbris » 31 May 2008, 03:01

The problem with the comune might be the birth year. Did you give them one specific year or a range of years to check. For example, if you told them the birth year was 1885 and it was actually 1886 or 1884, that might account for the negative result.

The name Reece, although rare, appears in Italy today. The name Reeci does not.

In Italian, it is probably Angelina, Americanized to Angeline.

Hope it helps! :lol:

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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby BillieDeKid » 31 May 2008, 03:44

Nice finds everyone. :D

I'm still thinking that Casalbore was where he got married and settled down at. If you can find his marriage it will tell you what town he was born in. Just so happens the LDS has films for your comune so you can order the film(s) for the years you think he got married. When you find it, and if it says life long resident of Caslabore you can then order the film(s) for his birth year. Here is the link for the films, you would want matrimonio

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library ... o+civile++

Find a Family History Center (FHC) near you
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library ... et_fhc.asp

Go in to your FHC to order the film. Cost is about $5.50 per film and takes about 2 to 4 weeks to arrive.

You should be able to find their daughters birth also if you order the film for her birth (Nati) year.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby suanj » 31 May 2008, 16:41

Shrugs05 wrote:Hello all,

I have ran into a wall on my research. I mailed a letter few weeks ago to the Comune di Casalbore (where my great-grandfather was born) and I got the following reply today:

In riferimento alla vostra nota del 22 maggio 2008,si comunica che dopo
esperite ricerche nei registri degli atti di nascita di questo Comune dal
1859 al 1871,non risulta nessun VIGLIONE Giulio neto verso il 1885.

Cordiali saluti --IL RESPONSABILE SERVIZI DEMOGRAFICI-Oriana MUCCILLO


What do I do now? I am confused because according to the ship manifest on Ellis Island, it said Casalbore. If my great-grandfather was not born in this city and somewhere else, where do I look? Whom do I contact or what do I do now to obtain my great-grandfather's birth and marriage license from Italy? Suggestions? Thanks and I greatly appreciate it.

hmmm strange reply...of civil records officer: from birth records in Casalbore from 1859 until 1871(???) nobody Giulio Viglione resulting born abt 1885... as it is possible? the officer must search between 1885/6!!!!!

maybe can help you to ask the Lista di leva in Avellino State Archive, they have the military cards:
U f f i c i o d i l e v a d i A v e l l i n o , regg. 286 (classi 1867-1910).

so send a letter or email to:
Archivio di Stato di Avellino
Via G. Verdi, 15/17
83100 Avellino (AV)
Italy

as-av @ beniculturali.it (NO SPACES)

with this txt:
Gent.mo Direttore,
il sottoscritto................. ( your name), cittadino statunitense di origini italiane, con la presente cortesemente richiede a codesto Archivio di Stato di poter ricevere fotocopia lista di leva del proprio antenato emigrato negli USA:
VIGLIONE Giulio nato a Casalbore nel Luglio 1885/6; purtroppo dai dati americani il giorno di nascita talvolta è scritto 3 Luglio 1885 e talvolta 11 Luglio 1886, per cui mi è impossibile essere più preciso.
In attesa di riscontro e di conoscere le spese dovute all'Archivio e modalità di rimessa, è gradita l'occasione per porgere distinti saluti,
.........your name
.................your complete address
.....................your email
------------------------
after the reply, they let you know the cost and you must to pay, in euros, it is a little sum, don't worry... having this documents you can request the right birthact in Casalbore, providing right birthdate, and name parents, and maybe you can send also the photocopy of military card in adding.....


or you can write again in Casalbore to Oriana Muccillo
with this txt:


Gent.ma Sig.ra Oriana Muccillo,

ho ricevuto la sua cortese risposta, e sono imbarazzato nello specificare che il mio antenato è nato nel 1885/6 per cui la ricerca nei registri di nascita di Casalbore dal 1859 al 1871 è sicuramente negativa essendo, il mio antenato, nato dopo il 1871.
Egli si chiamava:
VIGLIONE Giulio nato a Casalbore nel Luglio 1885/6; purtroppo dai dati americanila data di nascita talvolta è il 3 Luglio 1885 e talvolta l'11 Luglio 1886, per cui mi è impossibile essere più preciso. Ma sicuramente nato a Casalbore nel periodo indicato.

Potrebbe lei, se non le è di troppo disturbo, essere così gentile da aiutarmi ad ottenere l'estratto dell'atto di nascita( Modello plurilingue) del mio antenato summenzionato?
Confido in una sua risposta.
Distinti saluti,
.........your name
.................your complete address
.....................your email
--------------------------------------------------------------
regards, suanj
Visit my website:
ITALIAN ORIGIN SEARCH

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Shrugs05
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Re: Trouble with Documents

Postby Shrugs05 » 31 May 2008, 19:10

Thank you everyone for the help. And thank you Suanj, I shall try that.


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