Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

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Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby finding_rufino » 18 Jun 2008, 14:56

Hello all!

I am looking for my great -great grandfather's birthplace. I have all his naturalization documents, and they all say San Costanzo, Pesaro, Italy...however when I e-mailed San Costanzo, they cannot find any record of his birth. Also, all of his children were born in San Costanzo, and his wife was born in San Giorgio.

However, one thing that was strange, when I e-mailed San Costanzo in Pesaro, a guy responds, but from a different San Costanzo, not the one in Pesaro.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby finding_rufino » 18 Jun 2008, 14:58

Also, his name was Rufino Morini. born aug. 20, 1876

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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby suanj » 18 Jun 2008, 15:57

so replied no the civil records office of San Costanzo Common( Pesaro province)???
website: http://www.comune.san-costanzo.pu.it/
email: comune @ comune.san-costanzo.pu.it (NO SPACES)

in the ship's manifest Rufino Morini Mar 21, 1911
and joining to Ernesto Federici brother in law... so as it is possible that the officer found not the birth record? where you wrote?

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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby finding_rufino » 18 Jun 2008, 17:41

Hi suanj, Yes the stato civile of San Costanzo, replied of having no records... I'm stuck now, because all documents, death records, and everything else ALL say San Costanzo, Pesaro.

In the ship manifest of Mar 21, 1911 that is indeed my bisnonno, along with his wife, Anna who was born in San Giorgio, and their 4 children.

Any ideas? The man who sends the email name is Enrico Giordana. I requested the same record a year ago, and he was the one who also replied. It seems though, that alot of Morini's came from San Costanzo.

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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby suanj » 18 Jun 2008, 19:25

you can post here the officer reply??? I wish read what he wrote... bye, suanj
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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby suanj » 18 Jun 2008, 19:29

maybe you wrote the request as Rufino Morini, and they understood as RUFINO Morini... as in italian use( before the surname and after the first name)... not... MORINI Rufino born the 20/8/1876 in San Costanzo, son of.... and PAGNOTTI Carola... however you can write in Pesaro State Archive and to request the Lista di leva (military enlistment) of MORINI Rufino nato a San Costanzo(PU) il 20 Agosto 1876 ...
they have the records for men born from 1839 and 1916:
U f f i c i o d i l e v a d i P e s a r o , r e g g . 3 3 9 ( c l a s s i 1 8 3 9 - 1 9 1 6 ) : (Esiti
di leva >. Elenco 1959.
this is the better way for to know the truth.... regards, suanj
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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby finding_rufino » 18 Jun 2008, 20:02

This is what I wrote:

23,Giugno 2008

Ufficio dello Stato Civile
Comune di San Costanzo
ITALIA

Egregi Signori,

Mi chiamo Vicente Morini, ed abitare negli Stati Uniti all'indirizzo sopradetto. Cerco informazioni sul mio bisnonno, Rufino Morini. Nato nel comune di San Costanzo. Cerco questi dati per ottenere la cittadinanza Italiana. Vi sarei molto grato se poteste spedirmi l'estratto dell'atto di nascita di Rufino Morini, in Carta Legale (estratto integrale). Nato nel 20 Agosto 1876. Vi ringrazio in anticipo per la vostra gentilezza e premura, e vi prego di addebitarmi tutte le spese postali e dei certificati.

Distinti saluti,

Vicente Morini



AND the REPLY was ,

In riferimento alla Sua richiesta si comunica che in questo Comune non risultano atti di nascita relativi al Sig. Rufino Morino nato il 20/8/1876.
Distinti saluti.
L'Ufficiale dello Stato Civile del.Enrico GIORDANA.

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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby finding_rufino » 18 Jun 2008, 20:11

However, I did sent a request to Parma, just checking around with other cities. I did not understand what they replied, :

Gentile Signor Vicente Morini,

in relazione alla sua richiesta del certificato di nascita di Morini Rufino e di Travalini Anna, le comunichiamo di avere svolto la ricerca nei registri di stato civile di Parama in quelli delle delegazioni (Golese, S. Pancrazio, Marore, S. Lazzaro, S. Martino Sinzano, Cortile S. Martino, S. Donato, Vigatoo), anche nei censimenti della popolazione e nei certellini individuali della popolazione residente a Parma.
La nostra ricerca tuttavia ha avuto esito negativo.

Le chiedamo di fornirci gli elementi in base ai quali lei retiene che Morini Rufino e Travalini Anna siani nati nel comune di Parma.

La consigliamo di ricercare prima l'atto di morte e successivamente, procedendo a ritroso, l'atto di nascita:infatti sull'atto di morte solitamente e scritto in quale comune il soggetto era nato, come si chiamavano i suoi genitori, eccetera.

Continuado a considerarci a sua disposizione, le chiediamo fornirci ogni altra indicazione (il toponimo del luogo di nascita, i dati di identita forniti al momento dell'arrivo nel paese di immigrazione, ecc._ che possa utilmente indirizzare la ricerca.

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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby Luke » 18 Jun 2008, 20:26

Hi parma replied that they researched the records in Parma and the listed surronding area with negative results (Italian for no records found) They asked you how you arrived at the conclusion that your they were born in Parma. they aslo advised that you research death records which would include birth place etc.
From Roma to New York

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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby suanj » 18 Jun 2008, 21:20

hmmm... I belive that San Costanzo officer understood RUFINO Morino and not MORINI Ruffino( or Rufino).... however if you have also the right birthdates of children write it here so I can prepare the right letter... regards, suanj
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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby finding_rufino » 19 Jun 2008, 04:52

Rufino had 4 kids,

Italiano - born 10 Jun 1906, S. Costanzo
Franchina- born circa 1904 in S. Costanzo
Vincenso- born 03 OCT 1905- West Boylston, MA.
Henry- born in MA as well..

I know that Rufino and my great grandfather moved back to Italy for a couple of years, and then came back to the USA in 1911.

Also, my grandmother told me that her dad used to tell her that his family was from Fano.


Dont know if that would help any. I just ordered Rufino and Anna's death certificates, maybe these might give a little more information.

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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby suanj » 19 Jun 2008, 08:28

well write again so, to: comune @ comune.san-costanzo.pu.it (NO SPACES)

Oggetto: Estratto atto di nascita-modello Plurilingue-di MORINI Rufino nato a San Costanzo(PU) il 20 (o 26) Agosto 1876.

Spett.le Ufficiale di Stato Civile Sig. Enrico Giordana,

ringrazio per la cortese risposta riguardo alla mia richiesta di certificato, e desidero informarla che il mio antenato MORINI Rufino risulta, dai documenti statunitensi, nato a San Costanzo (PU) il 20 (o 26) Agosto 1876; non conosco il nome del padre, ma la madre era PAGNOTTI Carola.

Egli, MORINI Rufino, ha fatto diversi viaggi negli USA con la sua propria famiglia, fino a poi stabilirsi definitivamente negli USA nel 1911 con la moglie Anna, i figli nati negli USA: MORINI Franchina e MORINI Vincenzo ( che hanno risieduto per un periodo a San Costanzo) e il figlio nato a San Costanzo durante una delle sue lunghe permanenze a San Costanzo e cioè: MORINI Italiano nato a San Costanzo (PU) il 10 Giugno 1906. Nel Marzo del 1911 la famiglia emigra definitivamente.

Probabilmente i dati da me inviati in precedenza erano esigui per una ricerca, ma le sarei davvero grato se con questa integrazione di notizie, lei possa ancora ricercare e inviarmi cortesemenete quanto in oggetto alla presente- riguardo al mio antenato:
-MORINI Rufino nato a San Costanzo (PU) il 26 o 20 Agosto 1876, figlio di... ( non lo so) e PAGNOTTI Carola.
Può darsi che la data di nascita possa essere sbagliata nel giorno, giacchè talvolta risulta il 20 e talvolta il 26 Agosto 1876, sui documenti americani.

Confidando nel suo prezioso aiuto, mi è gradita l'occasione per porgere i miei più distinti saluti,


-------------- your name
--------------your complete address
-------------your email
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
send it, regards, suanj
PS from WWI draft card Rufino was born in the 20 aug 1876
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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby suanj » 19 Jun 2008, 08:35

in a genealogic tree on ancestry.com, your Rufino result born in Fano and not in San Costanzo.....(???) so before of to send the email, you can find some other trip of your ancestor, maybe you can descover other infos.... but personally I believe correct San Costanzo, and in this previous trip
http://ellisisland.org/search/shipmanif ... 3939010010
wrong the age(24 from direct reading of ship's manifest- and not 34 as is wrote on ellis island website) but is your ancestor...
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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby finding_rufino » 19 Jun 2008, 13:57

Ok thank you so much. I sent out the e-mail to address you gave me, and to sig. GIORDANA...

What I think happened is I contacted the wrong S. Costanzo, but I'm not sure. When sig. giordana e-mails, it says VILLAR SAN COSTANZO, which is not the same place in PU.

in the 1900 ship manifest, that is my gggrandfather because he came in search of a home for his family. I remember being told that.

How did you discover his mother's name? AMAZING!

Thank you so much

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Re: Looking for gggrandfather's birthplace

Postby suanj » 19 Jun 2008, 14:45

moment, so the reply was no of San Costanzo town, but from Villar San costanzo( Cuneo province!!!!!!!)?????????????????????? nooooooooooooooooooo!! moment now I will make again the letter
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