Atti diversi & Processetti question

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gennattasio
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Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby gennattasio » 04 Jul 2008, 04:38

Can someone please tell if anything is on these records other than marriage announcements and adoptions? Thanks

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Re: Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby nuccia » 04 Jul 2008, 12:08

Atti diversi means various acts. That could be anything, I would think. Maybe one of our FHC volunteers could help more.
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Re: Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby uantiti » 04 Jul 2008, 12:59

As far as I know the "Processetti" is a collection of documents which were requested in particular situations, i.e: in a marriage if the man or the girl were underage they needed the parents consent, in case one of the parents or both were dead then there was need to prove it and that requested a death certificate. Same thing if the bride or the groom were widow, the had to prove it with a certificate. These certificates were collected and that collection was called "processetti".
This is what I have been told. I guess the explanation could be more detailed but this is what I remember. If I'm wrong, forgive me!

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Re: Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby wldspirit » 04 Jul 2008, 13:17

A helpful link to understanding the terminology and what you can expect to find:

http://www.roangelo.net/vocabula.html#first-p

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Re: Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby JohnArmellino » 04 Jul 2008, 16:11

PROCESSETTI: These documents, first required by a Napoleonic Edict of 1808, were required by the state before a couple could get married. Some towns stopped requiring processetti at the end of the Napoleonic Era in 1815, but most Southern Italy towns continued the practice until unification circa 1865. As uantiti pointed out, the particular situation determined what documents were required. In its simplest form – when all of the parents of the couple to be married were alive and present in the town to consent in person to the marriage – the processetti would include just the bride and groom's birth extracts and the pubblicazioni posted in anticipation of the marriage. In the most extreme case (where all of the parents were deceased), processetti would include the bride and groom's birth extracts, the parent's death extracts, the grandparent's death extracts, and the pubblicazioni. In addition, the death extracts of any deceased spouse would also be included. However, in the case of multiple spouses, only the last spouse's death extract would be included. Finally, certain other extracts and notary records might be included, such as the consent of an absent father, adoptions, the recognition of a child once abandoned to the ruota di proietti, notarized statements of paternity or death where the relevant civil record could not be found, etc. Once I found a Sentence of Death among the processetti (for one of the fathers – not the groom!). A virtual gold mine for genealogists! Different towns enforced these requirements differently. All of the required death extracts were not always required or presented. For example, only the grandfather's death extracts would be included in some towns.

DIVERSI: As nuccia pointed out, there records might include anything. However, the most common documents seen among the atti di diversi are (1) birth records of still-born children (morti-nati), (2) birth records of abandoned children (nati di proietti), (3) records of deaths of inhabitants that took place outside the town (morti fuori), (4) adoptions (adozioni), (5) recognitions of abandoned children (recognizioni), (6) changes of domicile (domicilio), (7) records of earlier deaths (morti tardi), and (8) records of the deaths of persons unknown (morti ignoti). There may, of course, be other records that I haven't run across during my research.

CAVEAT: Most of my research has been in Molise, with some work done in Puglia and Abruzzo. Thus, my thoughts are based upon research in those areas.
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Re: Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby Essgee » 06 Jul 2008, 13:25

John.......

You are a gold mine of knowledge on the Civil Records.....


And then you share it........and I always learn something.


You are wonderful....

Have a great day!

Susan

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Re: Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby JohnArmellino » 06 Jul 2008, 18:28

Thanks, Susan!
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Re: Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby Emmy » 07 Jul 2008, 18:30

Thanks for the explanation John.
I have just recently received a processetti film, the first one I've ordered so far, and I was surprised just how much information it contained. From this film I found the names of one set of my G.G. Grandparents, my G.G.G. Grandparents and the icing on the cake- my G.G.G.G Grandparents. This was probably ,as you said, because the bride's father and grandfather were dead when she (my G. Grandmother)was getting married.
I also have a 'Diversi film' on indefinate loan and I have had a quick look at it but I thought it just contained birth acts from other little villages (frazione? spelling?) in the surrounding area but after reading your explantion I'll have another look at that film. I could have been missing a lot of information.
Thanks again John and GennattasioThanks for posting that question
Emmy

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Re: Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby gennattasio » 27 Aug 2008, 06:27

I've just been going through one of the atti diversi microfilms I ordered for Oppido Mamertina. This film has birth, marriage and death records for 21 other communes on it. The very short Oppido section is mostly abandoned babies and baptism records. It is a bit confusing because if you do a search for any of these communes in the family history catalog this tape will not come up. You have to put the film number into the search to see all the towns that are included on this reel. On 5 other reels of film I have for Oppido there are birth, marriage and death records for other towns on them. A couple of these communes are close to Oppido but most of them are between 45km to 98km away.
Thanks for the very informative answer John.

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Re: Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby adalea » 29 May 2009, 15:53

I'm currently looking for marriage records for my g.g.grandma + g.g.grandfather. I can't find them in the Matrimonio records - could they be listed in the Processetti/Publicazioni but not be listed in Matrimonio records?

Here's the situtation: my g.g.grandmother (Angela Modugno) had a son, Donato, in 1884 in Genzano di Lucania. Her husband was Giuseppe Caprioli. Her remaining children were all born in San Ferdinando di Puglia. However, in 1882 an Angela Modugno and Francesco Caprioli had a daughter together named Maria Domenica Caprioli. Angela Modugno and Giuseppe Caprioli also had a daughter named Maria Domenica Caprioli in 1892. My question is... could there have been two Angela Modugno's in that same place? I'm wondering how common it would have been for brothers to marry women with the same names (in which they would have been cousins). Both of the men named their first born daughters Maria Domenica, which by italian naming tradition says to me that that was their Mothers name. So they must be brothers. But was Angela Modugno ONE woman who happened to marry one brother and then the other, or have an affair?

In the Genzano marriage records for the time period of 1880-1884 I found no record of Angela Modugno marrying either a Francesco Caprioli or a Giuseppe Caprioli. This tells me that they might have been married in another town... however, can the publicazioni and processetti have records from them and not matrimonio records??? I'm confused now.

Can someone please let me know where I should be looking for these marriage records in this scenario?

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Re: Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby JohnArmellino » 29 May 2009, 16:50

But was Angela Modugno ONE woman who happened to marry one brother and then the other, or have an affair?


It was not uncommon for a widow to marry a brother of her deceased husband. Check out the death records in the relevant period. Keep in mind that there may be two (or more) women named Angela Modugno in the same time period. Due to the Italian naming traditions, many cousins carried the same name. As you dig deeper into the records of any given comune, you can often differentiate between such individuals.

This tells me that they might have been married in another town... however, can the publicazioni and processetti have records from them and not matrimonio records???


The pubblicazioni will include records that refer to marriages that take place in other towns. When the bride and the groom are from different towns, marriage banns are posted in each of the towns. In this way, pubblicazioni are quite valuable in tracing your line of ancestry from one town to another. Processetti records are only kept in the comune where the marriage takes place (I've only encountered one exception where processetti were recorded in both towns). Thus, if the processetti records appear in a certain town, then the marriage record should also appear in that town.
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Re: Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby adalea » 30 May 2009, 01:48

ok. so since I have already checked the marriage (matrimoni) records and they do not show records for those people there, than the marriage did not take place in Genzano for sure.

I also looked in the publicazioni, by accident - I thought I was looking at the matrimonio records, on the same roll - and did not see their names... but I will re-check those records as I may have skipped a few dates once I realized I was not in the matrimoni section.

So, because Francesco could have married a cousin of Angela's, I should just stick to looking for the marriage records for Giuseppe only. Ok. Now if their marriage records are not listed in Genzano from 1880-1884, then where should I go about looking for them? If they came from some other town, when they arrived in Genzano they wouldn't have had to post their publicazioni would they? If not, then I can't look at the publicazioni in Genzano... and the Processetti wouldn't be helpful since there are no marriage records in Genzano to begin with, correct?

If that is the case, where would I need to start looking to find their marriage records? Any suggestions?

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Re: Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby JohnArmellino » 30 May 2009, 04:12

If the records for the relevant years are complete and you still cannot find either the marriage record or the marriage banns for Angela and Giuseppe, then there is a good possiblity that they both originated in a different comune and had moved to Genzano di Lucania at some time. Check all of the birth records of their children to see if the parents comune of origination is mentioned. Also check their death records for the same reason.

Have you checked the marriage records of San Ferdinando di Puglia? The surnames Modugno and Caprioli both appear in this comune today (neither surname appears in Genzano di Lucania today). In fact, these surnames are far more common in Puglia than Basilicata. Is there any reason that you're concentrating on Genzano di Lucania?
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Re: Atti diversi & Processetti question

Postby adalea » 31 May 2009, 17:11

yes. Angela's first son (that i'm aware of) was Donato Caprioli born in Genzano italy 1884. Every child after that was then born in San Ferdinando di PUglia (from 1886 onward).

I've checked the s.ferd marriage records and nothing shows for them. That is why I was depending on the Genzano records.

I'll check the marriage records again from Genzano just to be sure...but i'm not very hopeful as I went over them pretty thoroughly the other day.


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