Borgese

As a nation state, Italy has emerged only in 1871. Until then the country was politically divided into a large number of independant cities, provinces and islands. The currently available evidences point out to a dominant Etruscan, Greek and Roman cultural influence on today's Italians.
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Borgese

Postby cliklm » 04 Feb 2010, 20:29

In the civil records for Lucca Sicula, Sicily (1800's) I am seeing the word "borgese" listed as the occupation of many of my ancestors. I know there is a word "Borghese" which I believe means middle clase. There is also a word "burgisi"- meaning a farmer who farms his own land. I am wondering if there were spelling differences and when the civil servant wrote borgese, it was really intended to be burgisi. The reason I ask is that most of the prior occupations for these same people are "agricoltore de companga" or "cultivatore di agricoltore".
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Re: Borgese

Postby PeterTimber » 05 Feb 2010, 06:19

The Ancestry.com translation of genealogy words from Italian to English translates BURGISI as RENTER. Borghese is a middle class person. =Peter=
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Re: Borgese

Postby cliklm » 05 Feb 2010, 21:06

Thanks Peter--I guess I'll never know if they really meant "burgisi" or "borghese"! :roll:
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Re: Borgese

Postby johnnyonthespot » 05 Feb 2010, 21:33

cliklm wrote:Thanks Peter--I guess I'll never know if they really meant "burgisi" or "borghese"! :roll:
Kathy


Burgisi (renter) doesn't sound like an occupation to me.

In this thread on another board, a poster says this about Borgese as an occupation:

In Sicily specifically, a tenant farmer, a smallholder, a middle peasant,
spelled also burgisi. That is from several different sources.


The poster may or may not be correct...
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Re: Borgese

Postby PeterTimber » 05 Feb 2010, 21:41

Dear Johnnie the term RENTER to my mind means TENANT FARMER. The term renter as I suspect you are thinking about is the italian word IN AFFITO (rented) or the verb AFFITARE ( to rent). =Peter=
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Re: Borgese

Postby liviomoreno » 06 Feb 2010, 08:24

According to Merriam-Webster, Renter=one that rents; specifically : the lessee or tenant of property.

"Borghese" (or borgese or burgisi) is similar to "Possidente" or "Proprietario" and indicates a person that do not need to work in order to make money...
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Re: Borgese

Postby PeterTimber » 06 Feb 2010, 15:40

I suppose then that Ancestry.com is in error? =Peter=
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Re: Borgese

Postby liviomoreno » 06 Feb 2010, 15:53

A person whose occupation is Renter=One that rents does not need to work in order to make money, and therefore may be defined as a Borghese or burgisi.

Peter, could you please give me a more precise link for the Ancestry page that provide translation for genealogy words?
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Re: Borgese

Postby johnnyonthespot » 06 Feb 2010, 16:08

liviomoreno wrote:A person whose occupation is Renter=One that rents does not need to work in order to make money


So, in English, a landlord as opposed to a tenant?
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Re: Borgese

Postby liviomoreno » 06 Feb 2010, 16:17

johnnyonthespot wrote:
liviomoreno wrote:A person whose occupation is Renter=One that rents does not need to work in order to make money


So, in English, a landlord as opposed to a tenant?


Yeah, I would say a landlord...
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Re: Borgese

Postby PeterTimber » 06 Feb 2010, 16:33

www.ancestry.com/learn/learningcenters/ ... tion=IT_EN

Is fror Italian Genealogy Terms (Italian to English) as requested Livio. =Peter=
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Re: Borgese

Postby liviomoreno » 06 Feb 2010, 16:47

PeterTimber wrote:www.<a href="http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-3166187-10456885" TARGET="_blank">Ancestry.com</a>/learn/learningcenters/defauylt.aspx?section=IT_EN

Is fror Italian Genealogy Terms (Italian to English) as requested Livio. =Peter=

Peter, thank you but this link does not work.
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Re: Borgese

Postby vj » 06 Feb 2010, 17:01

liviomoreno wrote:
PeterTimber wrote:www.<a href="http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-3166187-10456885" TARGET="_blank"><a href="http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-3166187-10456885" TARGET="_blank">Ancestry.com</a></a>/learn/learningcenters/defauylt.aspx?section=IT_EN

Is fror Italian Genealogy Terms (Italian to English) as requested Livio. =Peter=

Peter, thank you but this link does not work.


Hello Livio!
I'm curious also, but I've never been able to get links to ancestry. com to work either - they always go to the home page.
Hopefully Peter will read this and post the title for us.
Always looking for more reference material!
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Re: Borgese

Postby PeterTimber » 06 Feb 2010, 17:09

LIVIO & VJ If you give me an e-mail address I can send this website to you but as things stand I have a copy and I know how to get to it so please let me know how I can transmit to you guys www.ancestry.com/learn/learningcenters/ ... arch_EN_IT This does not seem to work either?????

=Peter=
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Re: Borgese

Postby liviomoreno » 06 Feb 2010, 17:16

PeterTimber wrote:LIVIO & VJ If you give me an e-mail address I can send this website to you but as things stand I have a copy andI know how to get to it so please let me know how I can transmit to you guys www. href="http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-3166187-10456885" TARGET="_blank">Ancestry.com</a>/learn/learningcenters/default.aspx?section=research_EN_IT This does not seem to work either?????

=Peter=


Does not work... Use copy and paste my email is liviomoreno @ gmail.com
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