Italian Military options

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Italian Military options

Postby acupxpa » 13 May 2010, 16:04

I am concerned about this for my children should I obtain Italian citizenship for them....

I understand that the military is voluntary at this point and there is no mandatory service with citizenship. However if there is a draft instated due to a war, is there anything similar to CO status in the US? Are there non-combatant options? I am a pacifist, although my children may not be when they get older, just in case they are...

Thanks,
Gina
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Re: Italian Military options

Postby Squigy » 14 May 2010, 06:33

acupxpa wrote:I am concerned about this for my children should I obtain Italian citizenship for them....

I understand that the military is voluntary at this point and there is no mandatory service with citizenship. However if there is a draft instated due to a war, is there anything similar to CO status in the US? Are there non-combatant options? I am a pacifist, although my children may not be when they get older, just in case they are...

Thanks,
Gina


From Wikipedia (just for reference):

"Italy had mandatory military service, for men only, until December 31, 2004. The right to conscientious objection was legally recognized in 1972 so that a "non armed military service", or a community service, could be authorised as an alternative to those who required it.[15]

The Italian Parliament approved the suspension of the mandatory military service in 2004, with effect starting from January 1, 2005, and the Italian armed forces will now be entirely composed of professional volunteer troops, both male and female,[16] except in case of war or serious international military crisis, when conscription can be implemented."

While I have not researched this topic, I would think if your children are living in the US at a time of war in Italy, they would not be drafted for military service (but again, I have not researched this, and can't be sure). Also, you have the right to renounce your citizenship by doing so in an Italian Embassy or Consulate.
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Re: Italian Military options

Postby johnnyonthespot » 14 May 2010, 11:29

Squigy wrote:Also, you have the right to renounce your citizenship by doing so in an Italian Embassy or Consulate.


Upon payment by wire transfer directly to Rome of the requisite €200 fee. Citizenship jure sanguinis is free; renunciation will cost you. :twisted:
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Re: Italian Military options

Postby johnnyonthespot » 14 May 2010, 12:35

Gina,

I have seen this and related subjects discussed several times over the years I have been interested in Italian dual citizenship. Besides the concern of possibile reinstatement of Italian conscription, you should also take into consideration the possibility that one of your children may one day seek employment, either in the private sector or US military/government, which might require a high level security clearance. It has been reported that the US will not issue "Top Secret" clearance to dual citizens, for example.

So, the point being, there is a risk - however small - that dual citizenship could be a detriment to one or more of your children. For this reason, some jure sanguinis applicants decide not to include their children in the process and instead allow them (the kiddies) to make their own decision on the matter when they are adults and able to take into account the full spectrum of pluses and minuses. They might want to wait until their career path is settled and/or until they are well past the age of possible conscription, for example.

Should they decide to go ahead with dual citizenship at some point, it would be a simple matter to do so; in fact, if you or your husband is still living you can simply register your child's birth at any time - a process which only takes a few days.

The greatest risk is that Italy will markedly change her citizenship laws and make future jure sanguinis applications more difficult, or eliminate this route to citizenship entirely.

On the other hand, renunciation as mentioned in the earlier posts may not always be a valid option. For example, if you were in charge of handing out Top Secret clearances for our nuclear program, would you be satisfied simply because an applicant renounced his Iranian citizenship in order to get the job? If you were the Italian government and had recently reinstituted the draft in order to fight a major war, would you allow a large group of potential soldiers to get out of serving "their country" by renouncing citizenship?

Which brings me to a final point: make no mistake about it, if your citizenship application is approved, Italy will henceforth be "your country" to the same degree that the US is. You owe it to her (Italy) to give her your full support in good times and bad, and to fight for her if necessary. I think there is a tendency amongst all of us, myself included at times, to view dual citizenship for the benefits that we hope to obtain from it (freedom to live and work in Italy/EU the most often cited) and forget that there is something much larger taking place. It is unlikely that any of us will ever reach the level of italianità of a native born and educated citizen, buit we should certainly make an effort...
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Re: Italian Military options

Postby PeterTimber » 17 May 2010, 15:28

You know with all the dual citizenship benefits and obligations that abound in our complicated society, I am reminded of the fate of those whose rights are limited to those rights granted by their fellow human beings who happen to be in Command of their lives. Laws are written by lawyers for lawyers.

Nothing really has changed...Its always the combination of Kings, nobility and peasants either in combination kings/peasants against the nobility, Peasants'/nobility against the King and Nobility/Kings against the peasants which is what we are currently experiencing in Italy and the USA =Peter=
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Re: Italian Military options

Postby johnnyonthespot » 17 May 2010, 16:18

PeterTimber wrote:You know with all the dual citizenship benefits and obligations that abound in our complicated society, I am reminded of the fate of those whose rights are limited to those rights granted by their fellow human beings who happen to be in Command of their lives. Laws are written by lawyers for lawyers.

Nothing really has changed...Its always the combination of Kings, nobility and peasants either in combination kings/peasants against the nobility, Peasants'/nobility against the King and Nobility/Kings against the peasants which is what we are currently experiencing in Italy and the USA =Peter=


Peter, something has changed. Today it is no longer just the Nobility/Kings but the entire "ruling class" which is in juxtaposition with the peasants. At the (US) federal level and here in Connecticut, government workers are paid far more, receive far better benefits, retire far earlier and with far better pensions than any private-sector worker performing similar tasks. The situation is out of control, in my opinion, and I don't see how it can last much longer.
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Re: Italian Military options

Postby PeterTimber » 17 May 2010, 21:08

Kings and Nobility are euphamisims for those in authority which include government, wall street and government appointees. Government workers are merely buffers for "them" =Peter=
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Re: Italian Military options

Postby acupxpa » 18 May 2010, 03:45

I found this on War Resisters' International website for those interested:

http://www.wri-irg.org/programmes/world ... orts/Italy


When conscription was enforced, legal provisions for conscientious objection were laid down in the 1998 Law on Conscientious Objection (230/19988). If conscription is reintroduced in case of war or national emergency, COs will be called up to serve in civil protection or the Red Cross (Article 13 paragraph 4).

In addition, according to Article 2 of the 1998 Law on Conscientious Objection, the right to conscientious objection to military service did not apply to those "who have presented a request within less than two years to serve in the Military Armed Forces" or any other government institutions which involve the use of weapons. This restriction practically excludes professional soldiers from claiming the right to conscientious objection.

The law was last modified in 2007, to bring it up to date to a situation where conscription is generally not enforced9.

There are no legal provisions for conscientious objection for professional soldiers.


So while you have the right to conscientious objection, you apparently loose that right once you are in the military (unlike in the US, although difficult). And if I understand this correctly, if you have requested a job such as a police officer in the previous 2 years.
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