World War I in Italy

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World War I in Italy

Postby Italysearcher » 23 Nov 2013, 18:06

Does anyone know if British Citizens, married to Italian citizens, living in Italy during WW1 were interned the way foreign nationals were in the UK?
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Re: World War I in Italy

Postby carinthiangirl » 27 Dec 2013, 16:44

why should british living in Italy be interned by Italy that time?
Italy and UK were in the same Entente/ Allied Powers.see right side in link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I
on map right side at green (Entente und Alliierte) Italy and UK:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erster_Weltkrieg

or did i missunderstand your question? :roll:
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Re: World War I in Italy

Postby erudita74 » 29 Dec 2013, 15:36

This subject has piqued my interest, as I just recently finished reading a book about the internment of so-called “Italian enemy aliens” in the U.S. during WWII, when the U.S. and Italy now found themselves on opposite sides. Prior to the onset of WWI, it is my understanding that Italy had for many years been in alliance with countries like Germany and Austria, but when WWI broke out in 1914, it remained neutral and did not enter the war. It was only almost a year later, after making an agreement with England in 1915 for territorial gain, that Italy actually entered the war. So the replier’s position is indeed a valid one, but I’ve read that, in WWI, civilian internment was a deliberate state policy on the part of many nations, and that governments used various guidelines for internment of civilians, the most common of which was foreign birth. So, a British citizen living in Italy during WWI, either being British born, or even foreign born, but a citizen of Britain, could have easily found him/herself the victim of internment in Italy during WWI. Unfortunately, I can’t find any specific data to support this. I just know that, during WWI, Italy interned some 70,000 in the Fruili and Dolomite border zones and sent men of military age to Sardinia for internment. During WWII, however, there was a civilian internment camp in the village of Oliveto, in the town of Civitella, where about 70 British citizens, who happened to be present in Italy when WWII began, were detained. But, of course, Italy and England were on opposite sides in that war, so the detainment of British citizens then comes as no surprise.

Perhaps the National Archives of England could help you further with this topic:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/reco ... ernees.htm

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Re: World War I in Italy

Postby carinthiangirl » 29 Dec 2013, 17:41

still i have no idea why a british should have been interned at WW1 by the italians !!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Fr ... d_War_I%29
!!!Italy, though nominally allied with the German Empire and the Empire of Austria-Hungary in the Triple Alliance, then refused to join them when the war started in August 1914. Instead, after a period of wavering and negotiations secretly with France and Great Britain, Italy entered the war almost a year later on the side of the Allies in May 1915!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_h ... orld_War_I

" I just know that, during WWI, Italy interned some 70,000 in the Fruili and Dolomite border zones and sent men of military age to Sardinia for internment."
yes, that were "austrian-hungarians" who were involved into Isonzo Battles and Dolomites-war, not British ones who were then in alliance with Italy!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_the_Isonzo
http://www.dolomitetreks.com/first-world-war.php
take -> Translate this PAGE with Google
http://gebirgskrieg.heimat.eu/index.htm

countries of former Austria-Hungary:
http://www.brainworker.ch/Oesterreich/A ... ungary.png
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Re: World War I in Italy

Postby erudita74 » 29 Dec 2013, 18:05

What I can't prove, which personally doesn't make much sense to me either, is what I found in a book called Civilians in a World at War 1914-1918 by Tammy M. Proctor and included in my reply above-

in WWI, civilian internment was a deliberate state policy on the part of many nations.
Governments used various guidelines for internment of civilians, the most common of which was foreign birth.

All I was saying was that, if such a statement is true, then it is possible that there were British born or British citizens, living in Italy at the time that Italy entered WWI, who were interned simply on the basis of their foreign birth.

The problem is that the literature on internment in WWI in Italy is scarce, as far as I can tell, as compared to the amount of literature available concerning internment during the Fascist regime and WWII, so there is really no way to prove or disprove the statement made by Proctor in her book. That's why I thought that Ann would have better luck trying to secure the info from the National Archives in England or from some other British based resource

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Re: World War I in Italy

Postby carinthiangirl » 30 Dec 2013, 14:45

now, i do not believe on such internment at WW1 by Italians for british only on the fact to be british .
one side of my family is from provinces which was lost from Austria-Hungary to Italy after WW1 and i never heard that any of my "austrian-hungarians" ever were interned as civilians being in Italy territory by Italy when the war started. so why should then have been done at british ones. it happened little bit later for the austrian-hungarians at Dolomites-War and Isonzo-Battles.
the situation at Kingdom Italy at WW1 time was completly another then at later fascist regime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Italy

at WW2 the situation was another, there also many civilans (men, women and children) came into camps like happened to many people from annexed countries like as example to such from the Balkan-area.
example italian camp on croatian island Rab:
http://www.cro-eu.com/forum/index.php?topic=1981.0

a list of some italian camps at WW2:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wo ... s_in_Italy
map for camps in Italy WW2 - the red-pointed were for ingleses/ british (zoom big with right mouse click): http://powvets.com/camp-locations/pow-camps-in-italy/
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Re: World War I in Italy

Postby erudita74 » 30 Dec 2013, 16:18

All I know is that, without access to actual lists of the names and nationalities of those civilians interned in camps in Italy during WWI, it is impossible to know for sure whether there were British citizens, or citizens of any other ally countries, interned in those camps. Even Italian national civilians themselves could have found themselves interned, if they had made any non patriotic comments against their own government. In times of war, governments act irrationally and illogically and sometimes even their own citizens have been interned for the duration of a war in which their own countries were participating.

I reiterate that I think Ann needs to see if the British govt has any lists of British born internees in Italy during WWI, as without such lists, I feel we are just going in circles. This is my last comment concerning this topic.

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Re: World War I in Italy

Postby carinthiangirl » 30 Dec 2013, 20:48

"Even Italian national civilians themselves could have found themselves interned, if they had made any non patriotic comments against their own government."

that was always clear, as is and was usual everywhere and every time. ;)
and questions will always bring answers and opinions.
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Re: World War I in Italy

Postby Italysearcher » 06 Jan 2014, 00:02

Thanks for all your comments. I had been unable to find a death record and just wondered if British citizens were interned as this might account for her disappearance.
I did eventually find her, she died before the war began.
Ann Tatangelo
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ANNOYING THE SAINTS - Stories of my Life in Italy. http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-b ... ly/7731505
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Re: World War I in Italy

Postby erudita74 » 06 Jan 2014, 02:00

Italysearcher wrote:Thanks for all your comments. I had been unable to find a death record and just wondered if British citizens were interned as this might account for her disappearance.
I did eventually find her, she died before the war began.


Well, your question, Ann, certainly got some discussion going, even if you ended up not needing the info. It only caught my interest because I had just finished reading a book called Una Storia Segreta: The Secret History of American Evacuation and Internment during World War II ed by Lawrence DiStasi. Anyway, glad you found the info you really needed.
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