Need help with translation and confusion with surname

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Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby cheshire1974 » 10 Feb 2009, 12:12

Hello and good day to you all!

I've been trying to obtain a copy of my grandmothers birth Certificate (estratto di nascita) these past few months, and was fortunate enough to receive something yesterday.

I've attached a copy of the atti di nascita to this message. If you could have a look over it and maybe translate it for me, it would be much appreciated.

[URL=http://img5.imageshack.us/

[IMG=http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1344/scan0009bf8.th.jpg][/IMG]


There's also some confusion on my part about the surname on the papers. My grandmothers surname, or so I thought, was meant to be Brunelli, but on the papers it says Brumelli???

When I sent off for the records I clearly stated her birth date and surname and they sent me this. Could they have made a mistake and sent me the wrong records?

I look forward to hearing from you.

=Cheshire1974=
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby johnnyonthespot » 10 Feb 2009, 12:34

cheshire1974 wrote:Hello and good day to you all!

I've been trying to obtain a copy of my grandmothers birth Certificate (estratto di nascita) these past few months, and was fortunate enough to receive something yesterday.

I've attached a copy of the atti di nascita to this message. If you could have a look over it and maybe translate it for me, it would be much appreciated.

[URL=http://img5.imageshack.us/

[IMG=http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1344/scan0009bf8.th.jpg][/IMG]


There's also some confusion on my part about the surname on the papers. My grandmothers surname, or so I thought, was meant to be Brunelli, but on the papers it says Brumelli???

When I sent off for the records I clearly stated her birth date and surname and they sent me this. Could they have made a mistake and sent me the wrong records?

I look forward to hearing from you.

=Cheshire1974=


As seen here, the name Brumelli is virtually non-existant throughout Italy. I suspect you are looking at a typo or possibly just overly stylized handwriting.
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby cheshire1974 » 10 Feb 2009, 12:46

Thanks johnnyonthespot!

I asked my mum earlier and she said the same thing but, I wanted to be sure because I don't have a lot of knowledge about Italian surnames. Sorry if it wasted anyones time out there, it wasn't intentional, I just feel a bit overwhelmed at times.

=Cheshire1974=
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby uantiti » 10 Feb 2009, 13:27

Hi,
the act states very clearly Brumelli Bruna. The name doesn't exist in Italy as it was invented by the officer who wrote the act. A midwife informed the officer of the birth as the mother didn't want to be mentioned. The midwife requested to be authorized to take care of the baby and so the officer did.

Ada
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby uantiti » 10 Feb 2009, 13:43

Anyway, the baby was born at 4 a.m. on May 14, 1923 in a house in Via Saffi (Saffi Street) number 134 in Bologna. Name of the midwife was Cenni Leonilde, 52 years old.
The second page is where the officer says that the midwife asked to keep the baby promising to feed her and take care and be answerable to the authorities whenever asked to.
You can see that she signed at the end as Cenni Leonilde. The other signatures are the witnesses and the officer. All of them are mentioned and sign using the surname and first name after but the officer.

Ada
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby cheshire1974 » 10 Feb 2009, 14:44

Thanks uantiti!

What a surprise! I guess I can't search for my Italian family now if there's no record of them.....what a shame.......falling down at the first hurdle.

I know that my grandmother did have family, cousins, aunties etc because she did talk a little about them when she was alive...so the family must have recognised her, also her father had to sign something when she was going into education.

Also my mum just told me that my grandmothers mother may have been a mistress, so that's why there's been some secrecy.

Does anyone know if I can still search for my family and how to go about it?

=Cheshire1974=
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby cheshire1974 » 10 Feb 2009, 14:47

Hi!

Also, her name on her marriage certificate is Bruna Brunelli.

Thanks again uantiti for taking the time to translate my document. I would never have known about that piece of my family's history if it wasn't for you and the rest of the people on this forum that have helped out.

Cheers
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby elba » 10 Feb 2009, 18:20

I had a bit of a search for any past Brumelli's as it's possible your grandmother always understood her name as BruNelli when it was perhaps BruMelli... I only found one tentative link to the name which is this guy, listed on the www.familysearch.org disc shown:

Antonio BRUMELLI Compact Disc #130 Pin #4368104 Pedigree
Sex: M
Event(s)
Birth: 14 Jun 1731
Ormelle , Treviso, Italy

I also looked into the name Brumelli and found this - once again a tentative link - but like the listing above it seems to point to northern Italian ancestry...


"Brumana is specific to the Bergamasc region of Lombardy, of the Costa Valley in particular, but is found also in Varese, Como, Travagliato in the Bresciano region and Premana in the Lecchese region, so Brumani and Brumano are probably due to errors of transcription of Brumana, that should derive from the Bergamasc placename of Brumano, but it is also possibly a derivation of nicknames originating from the archaic and now obsolete BRUMA or BRUM (brina, frost but also winter, cold, icy) to indicate someone who comes from the North, we should remember that the only information is from the term bruman or brumanus in the medioeval era, with the Franks (Franchi) it indicated tenant farmers of archbishops or of other feudal lords."

All this may be a red herring - but it may also help on the question of the name...
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby uantiti » 10 Feb 2009, 18:29

Hi,
The reasons her mother didn't want to be mentioned could be many. Who knows?
The surname Brumelli might have been changed into Brunelli because of a typo or just because someone understood Brunelli instead of Brumelli.
If your grandmother was recognised by the original family, her surname would have been changed. I think she was grown by a family that she always considered as her family. This family was probably the midwife's. You could try and find out more about. The problem is to find out whom the midwife was married to.

Ada
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby PeterTimber » 10 Feb 2009, 18:38

Dear Elba The Italian proximity to the M in Your transcription of Brumelli is curiously foreign while Bruni the italian base name and its variation are both italian and german being Bruno, Bruna and Brun having its Latin roots brunus and the german infilitration at the borders between Rome and the German natives of the latin nicknames for color of hair and skin leading to the english Brown....Just an anecdote. =Peter=
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby cheshire1974 » 12 Feb 2009, 11:37

Thanks again for taking the time to post and the insightful information.

I'm not sure where this leaves my search now, It may take me longer to find out her biological parents names, If I ever do, but I want to at least try.

Other documents I've found, including her British passport have Brunelli as her surname. My dad knew about her being born out of wedlock as she often talked about it, but had close contact with her biological mother, even raised up by her. Also, my Dads brothers and sister have more info about it but haven't seen them for years.

I think once I have enough info I'll be taking a trip (possibly 2010) to Bologna, but will have to see, I'd like to go there anyway, just wander around and maybe even see the house where she was born and the army garrison where they were married.

=Cheshire1974=
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby uantiti » 12 Feb 2009, 14:03

Well the street is still there but numbers might have changed and also buildings. As I said you could try and find out in the Town Hall who the midwife was married to and her address. This will help you to see which church she was baptized and if the priest wrote something in the church register.
You said her father signed some documents for her education, do you have the name of the school? They have registers too and it wasn't long time ago, she was at school around 1930.

Good luck!

Ada
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby PeterTimber » 12 Feb 2009, 14:54

Dear Chesire Bologna is a great university city and lots of students, italian and foreign, populate the town so you be assured of fun and frolic between researches...what better way to discover your roots!! =peter=
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby Italysearcher » 12 Feb 2009, 21:07

Here's another hypothesis for you.
For whatever reason the mother could not be named. The midwife declared the birth and requested custody. Just in case the officials did not agree to the midwife having custody she gave the baby a name that would be close to her own and easy for her to track down later. The midwife returned the baby to her for feeding etc. I don't imagine the authorities kept too close a tab on this baby. This would fit in with her being raised by the mother and haing cousins etc. If she was officially recognised by her biological parents there would be a document to this effect. A document of 'Riconoscimento', usually found in the 'atti diversi' at the town hall. It would be a good idea to check her baptism as her parents might well have been shown as Godparents.
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Re: Need help with translation and confusion with surname

Postby PeterTimber » 13 Feb 2009, 00:02

Uantiti gave you the address but the full address is 134 Via Aurelio Saffi which is on a main avenue in Bologna. If you go to www.mappy.com and just fill in the first box. The map will give you a clear indication of where it is located and the nearest cross street as well.=Peter=
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