Trying to translate birth record but need help, please

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Trying to translate birth record but need help, please

Postby Karenmurphy » 09 Apr 2009, 02:51

Hi, from a newbie.
I am trying to trace my ancestors in Sicily. My grandfather, Paul Grammatico, said he was born in Castelluzzo, Italy on 14 May 1888. He arrived in the US in 1907 on the SS Madonna. He married in US and his marriage license lists his parents as Joe and Annette Pummer. I believe Giuseppe Grammatico and Antonina Poma would be more like it.
I found records written in Italian on microfilm at the LDS Family History Library. I couldn't get copies, but they did allow me to take pictures of the records which were very small, hard to read and some in very bad condition. I’ve spent hours trying to translate some of them into English. I don’t need a complete literal translation but I do want to make sure I have the right records, names, places and dates if possible.

This record started at the bottom of one page and continued to the top of the next page. Unfortunately to top of the pages were pretty well ruined. I have tried to adjust the first part 3 times with hopes to make it easier to read. But it still didn't look very good. However, I ‘m still hoping someone wonderful like you will check to see if my guesswork is even close.
Image
Image

This record was taken from:
Registri dello stato civile, 1846-1910, San Vito Lo Capo (Trapani). Ufficio dello stato civile
1890 16 May (I think)
1 pm
came before _________(?)__________ the official state delegate
in community of Monte S Guiliano Capo S Vito
appeared Romeo Lafora (?), 24, farm laborer (?)
from same(?) community, it was declared that at 2 am on 15 of current month
in __(?)__ Castelluzzo, Antonina Poma _(?)___,
wife of Giuseppe Grammatico fu Paolo ___farmer(?)

a male baby named Paolo was presented

testimony of Giovanni P_____?
2nd page probably beyond hope, I think.

I appreciate all the help I can get! Grazie!!
Karen
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Re: Trying to translate birth record but need help, please

Postby Italysearcher » 09 Apr 2009, 18:13

Romea Cosma age 34 'Levatrice' midwife reported the birth at 3 am in
Contrada Castelluccio The last page is just the details of the testimony so not that important. Interesting to me is that Romea appears to have signed her name. Usually it states that they were illiterate. This one doesn't say that.
I don't think fu Paolo was a farmer. When they are deceased it doesn't state the profession. it seems to say Paolo neo lui in..... strange. Maybe someone else searching that area would know. These comments are pretty regional.
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Re: Trying to translate birth record but need help, please

Postby Karenmurphy » 10 Apr 2009, 05:19

Thank you for your reply! Even numbers seem to give me a hard time, but I never would have guessed what I thought was a "f" was really an "s" in Cosma.
I hope you don't mind my asking a few more questions?
I was guessing that fu Paolo and what ever comes after it both referred to Giuseppe - meaning his father was deceased and then Giuseppe's occupation. Can you read what it says after Antonina Poma's name? (I don't see their ages anywhere, did I miss them?)

Romea reported at "ore fu (?) meridiane uno(?)" is that one after noon or 1 pm? And she says the birth was "alle ora ante (?) meridiane due (?)" is that 2 am?

If this is really my grandfather's birth record , then he was only 16 (not 18)when he came to the states by himself. How old were children suppose to be before they could travel by themselves? 18 by any chance?

Sure appreciate the help!
Karen
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Re: Trying to translate birth record but need help, please

Postby Lucap » 10 Apr 2009, 07:46

...da Antonina Poma lavorante moglie di Giuseppe Grammatico fu Paolo seco lui convivente è nato un bambino di sesso maschile...

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Re: Trying to translate birth record but need help, please

Postby Lucap » 10 Apr 2009, 07:55

Why don't you ask to the "Ufficio dello Stato Civile" of San Vito Lo Capo for a "copia integrale" of the birth act of your ancestor, giving them the exact date and references? So you'll get a better copy and will be no problems to translate it.

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Re: Trying to translate birth record but need help, please

Postby Karenmurphy » 11 Apr 2009, 18:10

Lucap wrote:Why don't you ask to the "Ufficio dello Stato Civile" of San Vito Lo Capo for a "copia integrale" of the birth act of your ancestor, giving them the exact date and references? So you'll get a better copy and will be no problems to translate it.

Luca
Hi, Lucap.
I ask myself the same question. Part of it is cost and the fact that they are busy over there. But a bigger reason is because I like to do as much of the search as I can. I don't just want the records, I want to continue learning, too. Hope that makes sense and I am not being a pest.
Thanks for the reply.
Karen
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Re: Trying to translate birth record but need help, please

Postby Italysearcher » 11 Apr 2009, 18:48

Good thing you are not searching English records. They are not on film and you have to pay for every certificate. Most Italian towns provide the certificates free although they don't always send photocopies.
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Re: Trying to translate birth record but need help, please

Postby Karenmurphy » 11 Apr 2009, 22:37

Hi, Italysearcher. You made me laugh. How did you know? The other half of my tree is from England! :wink: but what little I know about them, I may never have to think about getting their records.

Is there a way to find a professional researcher by area like San Vito Lo Capo or Trapani, or do most researcher search all over?

Grazie, again!
Karen
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Re: Trying to translate birth record but need help, please

Postby AnnetteLB » 12 Apr 2009, 17:54

Karenmurphy
Hi - I research at LDS FHC all the time and I found that the best way to translate is using a book called "Italian Genealogical Records" 'How to use Italian Civil, Ecclesiastical & Other Records in Family History Research' BY TRAFFORD R. COLE. They have it at my FHC and I bought my own through Amazon. Don't remember the price but worth every cent. It actually has the Italian translation into English of each document on microfilm, plus a list of Italian to English Months, Days, Hours, numbers, etc. I love it.
The short version of what the Birth Act document reports is:
A father or mid-wife appears before the Mayor of the town within 3 days of the birth of the child. They are swearing to the day and time of birth. The first name that appears is that of the Mayor - the next name, is the father, son of _____. When the mother's name appears, it gives her maiden name, and her father's first name. The child's name is listed too. The bottom are the witnesses that have to be unrelated. The second page is really just info that you don't need for sourcing in your tree. This report is then sent to the Bishop, who performs the Baptism and then the form is sent back to the Mayor for his records. By the way - fu before a name means dead and di means of.
Guiseppe is Joseph so your records are right. Paolo is Paul. The marriage license of immigrants at the time must list the maiden name of the mother. So the person who wrote the license wrote Pummer (phenetically) instead of Antonina Poma. The surname of the grooms's father is understood, since it would be the same as the groom! It is sometimes difficult to understand that if they cannot speak, read or write English, alot of forms indicate guesses by the clerk. This is especially true on Census documents. If you need any other help, please feel free to contact me at AnnetteLB@aol.com. I am working on Sciara, Palermo, Sicily and Naples, Italy. Am also helping on other Trees involving England, Ireland and the US. Have fun and good luck.
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Re: Trying to translate birth record but need help, please

Postby Italysearcher » 12 Apr 2009, 20:24

There are a lot of professional researchers who use the microfilms and several are on this site. Finding one on site in Italy is another story. Try www.genealogypro.com
Ann Tatangelo
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ANNOYING THE SAINTS - Stories of my Life in Italy. http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-b ... ly/7731505
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Re: Trying to translate birth record but need help, please

Postby Karenmurphy » 12 Apr 2009, 21:30

Thank you Italysearcher and Annette!
I certainly will check out both the site and the book.

I'm very grateful for the facility like the LDS library. I can't believe the Catholic pope want to prevent them from getting any more records to share with the rest of the world!

And Italy searcher, I sure hope you and your family weren't close to the earthquakes, and that all is pretty well settled down now.

Grazie for your help!
Karen
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