Riveli Records Question

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Riveli Records Question

Postby cliklm » 15 Jun 2009, 23:49

I am reviewing the 1747 Riveli records for Lucca Sicula, Sicily and I am seeing several widows with children. I am wondering if the widow was using her maiden name or the name of her husband. I do not see anywhere in the document the name of her husband.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

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Re: Riveli Records Question

Postby Italysearcher » 16 Jun 2009, 19:19

If the children's surnames are different then she is using her own name. On the records I have seen the husband's surname is often placed on the line above, or she is described as 'widow of'.
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Re: Riveli Records Question

Postby cliklm » 16 Jun 2009, 19:48

The record states her name "Aloysia Musso ved.". Under her name are listed three daughters with no surname listed.
Antonia "filia"
Caterina "filia"
Biggia "filia"

In the top righthand corner it says "Riveli di Aloysia Musso ved. del fu Matteo (and the rest I cannot read).

Would this then mean that Aloysia is the widow of Matteo and her their children were Antonia, Caterina, and Biaggia?
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Re: Riveli Records Question

Postby elba » 16 Jun 2009, 21:35

It has always been the practice, is still is, that an Italian woman upon marriage retains her own family surname.

Her children are automatically given and registered with the father's name. He's the head of the family.

A married woman will often be 'noted' as Signora Green IN Rossi. That is Green is her name BEFORE marriage, but she is now 'in' marriage with Rossi (father of her children)

Whereas in 'our' culture most married women would write their name as Mrs. Rossi nè Green.
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Re: Riveli Records Question

Postby cliklm » 17 Jun 2009, 00:05

I understand that the female retained her maiden name (the name she was born with). However, I am questioning a widow. In the 1747 Riveli records there are many widows listed and in each and every case her children do not have a different surname than she does. So, I am thinking she probably carried on the name of her deceased husband since her children would carry his surname. In the top righthand corner of each of these documents it will list her name (example: Aloysia Musso ved. del fu Matteo) Wouldn't this mean she was married to Matteo? Aloysia's children are listed with given name only and no surname. Another example would be Maria Savina. The record lists Maria Savina ved. del fu Pietro. Again her children are listed with given name only and no surname. I would therefore think that they were born to Piertro Savina and his wife Maria.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Re: Riveli Records Question

Postby liviomoreno » 17 Jun 2009, 05:18

cliklm wrote:The record states her name "Aloysia Musso ved.". Under her name are listed three daughters with no surname listed.
Antonia "filia"
Caterina "filia"
Biggia "filia"

In the top righthand corner it says "Riveli di Aloysia Musso ved. del fu Matteo (and the rest I cannot read).

Would this then mean that Aloysia is the widow of Matteo and her their children were Antonia, Caterina, and Biaggia?


In my opinion Musso is Aloysia's maiden surname. Matteo's Surname is (and the rest I cannot read).

If you post a picture of the complete document I can be more precise...
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Re: Riveli Records Question

Postby JamesBianco » 17 Jun 2009, 13:29

This is definitely her married name. I have worked extensively with the 1747 and 1748 Riveli. On these records the woman is listed under her husband's surname. This is also true of the 1653 Riveli.

The women I am linking below from the 1748 Riveli below are all
listed by their married names...


Nunzia Pistone, widow Paolo Pistone


Filippa Zirillo, widow of Filippo Zirillo


Anna Amato, widow of Giuseppe Amato


and in the 1653 Riveli you will see the same thing occurring:


1653 Riveli Women listed under husbands surname


So essentially (for whatever reason) in the Riveli, unless you see something like (Alamia et Ferranti) it will be her married name.

Musso is definitely the woman in your document's married name. .
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Re: Riveli Records Question

Postby liviomoreno » 17 Jun 2009, 13:40

James, thanks for the clarification.
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Re: Riveli Records Question

Postby cliklm » 17 Jun 2009, 20:01

James--thank you very much for your clarification! This information really assited in finding some of the people I needed to find! These records are just amazing. I have been studying the 1623, 1636, 1652, and 1747 records for Lucca Sicula, Province of Agriento, and I have been able to link some of my lines back to the original establishment of the Culla Fiefe (Lucca Sicula) in 1623. I just wish there was a Riveli for the timeframe between 1652 and 1747 as there are a few lines who I can't positively link to an individual. I can link them to a family line but not the actual individual.

Now, if only the church records for Lucca Sicula were available! That would be so helpful!

Thank you again.
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