2 Italian birth records

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2 Italian birth records

Postby oilman19 » 29 Oct 2009, 21:56

Can someone provide a translation for the attached birth records of my grandparents?

http://s770.photobucket.com/albums/xx341/oilman19/

Thank You

Jim
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Re: 2 Italian birth records

Postby Tessa78 » 29 Oct 2009, 22:33

Left the translations on your other post.....
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Re: 2 Italian birth records

Postby liviomoreno » 30 Oct 2009, 08:07

The annotation on the left of Fioravante's birth record states that he married on Nov 17, 1910 Antonia Martora, while the second birth record is related to Antonia Mattora. Are they the same person?
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Re: 2 Italian birth records

Postby oilman19 » 30 Oct 2009, 11:48

Thank you for noting that discrepancy for me. I have been fighting this battle since I started doing my research. In USA, I have documents with Martilla, Martola, and the ship manifest reads Martora.
I suspect the reason for all of the discrepancies is due to fact that my grandparents were illiterate and people wrote what they heard. It has made my research much more challenging. I did think that, once in Italy, the accuracy would improve since people spoke a common language. I am still not unequivically sure of the correct spelling. Maybe someone in Santa Maria would know of a church record that would qualify one spelling over the other. Until then, I guess I will have to continue checking all possible spellings when doing my research.
Your help is very much appreciated.

Jim
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Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: 2 Italian birth records

Postby johnnyonthespot » 30 Oct 2009, 12:28

oilman19 wrote:... I did think that, once in Italy, the accuracy would improve since people spoke a common language.

Jim


Not as common as you might think. See this Wikipedia entry. The use of "Standard Italian" is a relatively new occurrence.

On the other hand, the Italian bureaucracy hasn't changed all that much over the centuries, and if the Italians are sticklers for one thing, it is the proper and consistent use of the legal name. If is not likely that an error such as Martora/Mattora would have been made in such important records as birth/marriage/death acts.

You need to research this question very carefully. One thing is for certain, your local Italian consulate would not be pleased with this discrepancy if your goal is to use these records for a citizenship application.

Edited to add: Interestingly, both Martora and Mattora are equally uncommon throughout modern Italy, see http://www.gens.labo.net/it/cognomi/
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Re: 2 Italian birth records

Postby oilman19 » 30 Oct 2009, 15:16

Based upon my research so far, Antonia's parents and age match up to my info that has been passed down. I felt quite confident that I found the correct birth record in the town of Santa Maria Capua. I was surprised, however, that her marriage to Fioravante was not annotated on her birth record. That would have provided me sufficient confirmation that I found both grandparents.
I admit that I have become immune to the various spellings since they have been a way of life since I started my research. I have seen 5 variations of my grandfathers name here in the U.S. I am only using these records for my genealogy research but a consistent spelling would make life easier.
Thank you again. I have noted your concern and will keep an open mind.

Jim
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Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: 2 Italian birth records

Postby PeterTimber » 31 Oct 2009, 20:47

Italian immigrant names and surnames endured humongous assaults upon entry into the USA as immigrants. Their documents at time of departure from Italy were "correct" being issued by the Italian Government for the current spelling since 1000 years of transmission from one person to one agency incurred errors in translation, composition and mists of time.

However upon entry into the USA our beloved immgrants had their names changed ...Vincent to James and last names changed to an anglo saxon name, shortened &lenghtened to make pronunciation easier, mispelled and phoneticized ad infinitum.

Consequently when I hear people complain about the Italian surnames being mispelled in Italy, I smirk since people in the USA do not even know what their surnames should be or the proper way to spell it nor what it means if it has any word meanings!!!!! =Peter=
~Peter~
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Re: 2 Italian birth records

Postby oilman19 » 08 Nov 2009, 00:29

Regarding the discrepancy in the spelling of my grandmothers name, I am confident I have found the correct birth record based on all info that has been passed down to me. She has the correct parents, correct birth year, and correct 1st name. I scoured S.M. Capua birth records for 1899, 1890, & 1891. Nothing comes close.
It is noteworthy that she has no annotation on her birth record about the marriage to my grandfather Fioravante (as his does). I concluded that they were unable to find her record because of the spelling. Her name is spelled Martora on my grandfathers annotation and the birth records of her 2 boys born in S.M. Capua. I am unable to reach any other conclusion at this time.

Jim
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Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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