Matrimoni translation

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Matrimoni translation

Postby oilman19 » 09 Jan 2010, 19:16

I have attached 2 links for the same marriage. Your help to translate this document is appreciated.

Jim

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... rimoni.jpg

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... rriage.jpg
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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby liviomoreno » 09 Jan 2010, 19:49

Request for marriage banns 1910 October 24
Groom Fioravante Ianniello single, farmer, aged 21, son of Francesco and Anna Scialla, born in Santa Maria Capua Vetere
Bride Antonia Martora single, farmer, aged 22, daughter of Pasquale and Marisa Tamburino, born in Santa Maria Capua Vetere

The banns were posted on Oct 30, Nov 6 and Nov 10
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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby oilman19 » 09 Jan 2010, 21:01

does the document provide any additional info such as witnesses, relationships, siblings, parents, etc.?

Thanks,

Jim
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Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby Tessa78 » 09 Jan 2010, 23:21

Witnesses...Pietro Aveta (sp?), 35, and Luigi Ianotta, 40 (?).
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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby oilman19 » 10 Jan 2010, 03:06

Thank you Livio and Tessa. However, I am disappointed and confused. I had been led to believe that an Italian matrimoni document is typically a wealth of info. Since I believe I have the birth document for both my grandparents (Fioravanti & Antonia), this marriage document has done nothing but dispute my grandmother's age and the date of their marriage.
I had read that marriage requests had to be accompanied by a copy of birth record and permission from the fathers. Does this document indicate whether the parents were present (I don't know when they died)? I expected the possibility of siblings being present.
I have been 99% sure the attached document is that of my grandmother. It tends to disagree with the marriage notes somewhat. Some of you may remember the controversy over the spelling of her last name Mattora/Martora.
While I realize no one knows the answer, I would like a professional opinion regarding whether this is the same Antonia on both documents. Your opinions are important to me. I have not been able to figure out how they can be 2 different people.

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... avante.jpg
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... ntonia.jpg


Sincere thanks,

Jim
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby jwazevedo » 10 Jan 2010, 04:13

Jim,
Can you post a larger version of those birth records? They are too small to read as is.

The Pubblicazione document does say that copies of the birth records were provided. These are often included in the Allegati section of the town records, and there is a wealth of information to be found there. If the microfilm records you're using includes Allegati, you might want to search those. Also, the Pubblicazione document does seem to say that the groom's parents also appeared at the town hall with the bride and groom. I believe it was to give their consent to the marriage, but I'm not great at reading those pointillist LDS records. Someone with better language skills can verify that.

Good luck,
Jerry
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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby Tessa78 » 10 Jan 2010, 04:15

Jim,

When I tried to look at the two documents in your last posting, they come up VERY SMALL. I am not able to read them. I don't know why.


As for the first document. It does mention the parents of both the groom and the bride as Livio described, and all parents appear to still be living.

The bottom of the document basically states that copies of the birth records of the "sposi" (bride and groom) were issued. This was stated by the parents of the groom, and asks that the banns be published.

This document is not the marriage act, but rather the "announcement".

Once you get the latest documents posted again someone will be able to address your last request. :-)

T.
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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby liviomoreno » 10 Jan 2010, 07:55

Tessa78 wrote:Witnesses...Pietro Aveta (sp?), 35, and Luigi Ianotta, 40 (?).


The groom parents were also present and gave their consensus. The birth acts, released on August 30 of the same year by the same mayor, were attached to the request.
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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby liviomoreno » 10 Jan 2010, 07:57

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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby oilman19 » 10 Jan 2010, 11:56

I guess I don't have this image hosting routine figured out yet. Sorry. Please try this attempt.
Note: Does the annotation on Fioravanti's record indicate their marriage on 12 Sep 1910?
Where would I find the Allegati (I assumed I had)? Would It be from the same book on the film? I looked no further when I found this document. I was so excited. You have burst my bubble (temporarily).

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... avante.jpg
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... ntonia.jpg

Thank you for your help.

Jim
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby liviomoreno » 10 Jan 2010, 12:36

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... avante.jpg

Fioravante Janniello was born in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, via[street] Campania on May 28 1889 at 5:00am.
Father Francesco Antonio 44, farmer
Mother Anna Scialla, housewife
Witnesses Francesco Aulicino and Domenico Santoro.

The annotation on the Left states tha on Nov 17, 1910 he married, in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Antonia Martora

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... ntonia.jpg

Antonia Mattora was born in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, via S.Erasmo on May 6, 1890 at 3:00am
Father Pasquale, 38 farmer
Mother Maria Tamburrino, housewife
Witnesses Francesco Ferraiuolo and ??? Tallo


The strange thing here is that in the marriage banns request, dated 1910, the bride is aged 22 and she appears to be older then the groom, while according to the above birth acts Antonia is 1 year younger than Fioravante.

There is also the surname discrepancy: Mattora and Martora...

I'm not familiar with the FHC microfilms and I don't know if the Allegati (attachments) are in the same microfilm, on the other hand I believe that the allegati register is a separate book.
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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby oilman19 » 10 Jan 2010, 13:01

Thank you Livio. You provided that marriage date in the past. I must have copied it incorrectly.
I know about the other discrepancies and they are the reason for my frustration. I cannot figure out how Antonia can be the same person or how she can be what appears to be 2 different people. It seems every time I find an official record, a new mystery evolves.
Since the posters to this site are obviously very serious genealogists, I am hoping for some professional opinions about my dilemma. While I am sure I will still be confused, I need to figure out a proper direction for my research. The opinions will be invaluable.

Thank you,

Jim
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby liviomoreno » 10 Jan 2010, 14:43

In my opinion some of your doubt can be solved if you find the birth act in the Allegati registar, and you should also try to find the actual marriage record.
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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby oilman19 » 10 Jan 2010, 14:57

Is the "birth act" you refer to the same as the registration of birth I have already found (see previous attachment)? Is the marriage record in the Allegati?

Jim
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: Matrimoni translation

Postby liviomoreno » 10 Jan 2010, 15:25

Let me try to explain:

The document you posted at the beginning of this topic ( http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... rimoni.jpg ) is a "request for banns": On Oct 24 1910 Fioravante and Antonia went to the Mayor and said "we want to get married"... They also gave to the mayor a copy of their birth act.
The request for banns was registered in the PUBBLICAZIONI DI MATRIMONIO register and the copies of the birth acts were inserted in the ALLEGATI register.

On Oct 30, Nov 6 and Nov 10 the banns were posted in the Town Hall.

The actual Marriage was celebrated on Nov 17 1910 and recorded in the ATTI DI MATRIMONIO register

You should find the birth act contained in the ALLEGATI register and verify that it refers to the same person of the birth act that you already have.

And you should also verify the names on the actual marriage record.
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