Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby maestra36 » 09 Apr 2010, 23:50

The bride is from another town San ?
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby maestra36 » 09 Apr 2010, 23:55

Antonino was a vedovo or widower.

Also the bride's mother was a vedova or widow
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby maestra36 » 09 Apr 2010, 23:55

Not sure if you need anything else from the record.
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby oilman19 » 10 Apr 2010, 00:29

That is my problem. I need Antonio's age to prove or disprove his link to my ancestry. I just can't get these documents to cooperate.
Very frustrating!

Jim
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Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby maestra36 » 10 Apr 2010, 00:35

You said earlier that you had birth acts with Antonio as the father. None of those records had his age at the time of the births?
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby oilman19 » 10 Apr 2010, 00:56

They may have. However, I am trying to avoid coincidence before I connect him to my tree. I have a series of "probablies", but nothing firm that makes a solid connection for me. As I mentioned, I think he is the brother of my g grandmother, but my proof is still weak. I need more solid info.
If it would help, I could have one of his children's birth record translated, but I don't see how to make the leap to it being the same Antonio.
Thank you for your interest and your help.

Jim
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby maestra36 » 10 Apr 2010, 02:04

The only way to prove that they are brother and sister is to find documents that show that they have the same parents.
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby oilman19 » 10 Apr 2010, 08:55

The attached image is the matrimoni of my g grandmother.
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... ni1883.jpg
I have the translation:
"1883 September 19

Pasquale Mattora, 31, son of deceased Matteo, and Mariantonia di Lorenzo
TO
Anna Maria Tambo(e)rrino, 20, daughter of Nicola, and Teresa (sp?) Nardo"

I believe these are the same parents as the ones in this register for Antonio. These weddings are 27 years apart. A long time for 2 siblings(??). My assumption is this is probably a late 2nd marriage for Antonio. His age would help to prove or disprove that theory.

I have an Antonio raising a family approx. 30 years earlier with a different wife whom I think may be the same Antonio, but no solid leads to link him except the fact that this is not a common name in S.M.C.V.
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... th1879.jpg
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... 1884-1.jpg
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... 1882-1.jpg
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx34 ... th1908.jpg
None of the translations I was provided indicated the parentage of Antonio, so I was only able to assume his connection. No proof. If you can see a more positive link with this info, you will be my hero for the day.
Thank you for your interest.

Jim
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby maestra36 » 10 Apr 2010, 10:51

Jim
As to the ages of Antonio-
In the first record, he was in a place far away so a midwife, age70, made the presentation of the infant and the announcement of the birth.

In the second one, Antonio was age 31 which gives you an estimated year of birth for him of 1853 since the record is dated 1884.

In the third one, his age is 30 which gives you an estimated year of birth for him of 1852.

So, you are pretty much in the right range of 1852-53 for his year of birth. Does your town have birth records on microfilm for these years?

In the fourth document, the Giovanni who died at age 18 in 1908 would have been born about 1890.

As to the wide gap and weddings 27 years apart, here is my story. My husband's one great great grandfather was born in a town in Sicily which was not the same town where my husband's grandmother was born. It seems he was born in 1847 (which is correct) and his grandmother was born in 1899. Her father had married in his native town in 1873 and had two children with the first wife in 1878 and 1881. She died in 1892 and he remarried the following year, but no children with second wife. Then he relocated to the town where my husband's grandmother was born. Married her mother, widowed herself, in early 1899 (26 years between the first and third marriage) and my husband's grandmother was born in late 1899. Her father was already 51 years old. He and her mother then had children through early 1907. He was almost 60 by the time he fathered his last child.

Nati 1851-1852 FHL INTL Film
1137972
Nati 1853-1855 FHL INTL Film
1137973

These are the films from S Maria Capua for the birth years. Why not start there to see if you can find a birth record for him in this town first. You could then eliminate him being born in this town and move on to the other town. Or, if you believe he died in the town, I would do one of the last three films with death records listed in the library catalog.
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby maestra36 » 10 Apr 2010, 10:58

Anna Maria Tambo(e)rrino, 20, daughter of Nicola, and Teresa (sp?) Nardo"

you have this from an 1883 record meaning she was born in 1863. That would only make Anna Maria 10 or 11 years younger than Antonio.
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby maestra36 » 10 Apr 2010, 11:17

I see in the publication of marriage of Antonio to Rosa D'Angelo, it says he was widowed. So there is a good chance that Marianna Valentino was his first wife.

Definitely look for his marriage record to Marianna pre the 1879 birth of the first child.

Definitely look for his birth record 1852/1853 range.
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby oilman19 » 10 Apr 2010, 11:42

I pretty much have had this picture already. Unfortunately, at this point, I haven't enough proof to tie in all of my theories. I was quizzing Tessa, hoping she would see some tidbit that would help prove out my theories.
When you started to inquire, I thought I would paint the whole picture for you. Another set of eyes can be invaluable.
I'm just getting anxious to put these people into my ancestral tree, but that firm link keeps eluding me.
My ordering and reviewing of films has not centered on this particular question yet. I am still concentrating on direct line ancestors and sometimes these branches find their way into my research. Your interest, and that of other posters to this forum, is heartening.
Thank you for your insight.

Jim
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby maestra36 » 10 Apr 2010, 11:56

Jim
I have been doing microfilmed research since 1997. I am telling you that, if you search for the two things above, I think you will be able to tie it all together. I don't know what kind of experience Tessa has with the microfilmed records. I have researched films in 20 towns with great success over the years. I really think you should take my advice, but that is up to you. You have gone this far with the microfilms. Antonio and Anna Maria are definitely not that far apart age wise. If you locate his birth record-you have it narrowed down to two rolls of microfilm pretty much- you may have the answer. I know you try to stay direct line, but sometimes there is important family information in the records of siblings. My database has some 18,000 people in it. It does get hard to manage at times, but sometimes you find information about a family which you might not otherwise have found. I really don't know what other advice to offer you.

I also found that processetti for more recent years have less records with them than the older processetti. If the year of the processetti was further back, you probably would have gotten a death record for his previous spouse with the marriage package, as well as birth records for the bride and groom. In more recent years, the marriage processetti were missing those kinds of records unfortunately. So you have to do additional research to find those kinds of records. Not knowing the answer for sure-whether they are brother and sister-is driving you crazy, so if there is a way to resolve the problem, you should take the time to try to find it.
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby oilman19 » 10 Apr 2010, 12:21

Those films are on my list. I simply haven't ordered them yet. I am currently reviewing at least 7 films with 2 more on order. I find I get overwhelmed with so many films. Since I don't read Italian, I am simply looking for familiar names. Invariably, I have to review these films more than once. When I put in my next film order, I will be sure to order these films. I don't know when that will be yet.
Tessa was simply translating the images for me and I kept pushing her to find additional info on the documents that I desperately needed. She has also followed, with interest, my plight of name spellings that keep changing causing many unnecessary detours (Tammurrino/Tamburrinno)(Mattora/Martora) etc.
I appreciate all of the help and advice that I get from the forum.
Thank you,

Jim
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: Tammurrino, D'Angelo Allegato register

Postby maestra36 » 10 Apr 2010, 12:49

Jim
You have too many films to use at once, especially for someone who doesn't read the language and the old script. That is why you are going crazy. What is done is done, but in the future it is best to start with only 1 or 2 films. I don't know what kind of hours your FHC is opened, but even when mine was opened 4 days a week, at most I only did 3 microfilms simultaneously. I just don't think that your answers are going to be on the microfilms you currently have there, but you shouldn't give up.

I also think you should take some time to try to learn to read some of these documents. Even though I had studied Italian in college, by the time I had started researching microfilmed records, it was almost 30 years since I had done so. It took a number of good Italian dictionaries and a lot of practice and patience to try to learn to read the records and, even now, some can be difficult to decipher.

I wish you good luck in your continued research. Don't give up. You'll eventually resolve the problem.
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