Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

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Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby uzzk23a » 13 Jul 2010, 19:21

I *think* I have finally found my grandfather's birth record on an LDS microfilm, but I am having trouble with the handwritten portions - could someone please help with translation?

Thank you very much !
Craig


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http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/6510 ... medres.jpg
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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby Tessa78 » 13 Jul 2010, 21:13

Hello Craig :-)

On 5 May 1885 at 10 Am at the Town Hall in Sciacca, Girgenti, before the local official, appeared Stefano(sp?) Margiotta, 39, sailor, to delcare that at 9 AM yesterday (4 May) at the house on Via Consiglio #1, to Giuseppa Licata, his wife living with him, was born a male child given the name Tommaso..

Witnesses last names are hard to read.
They both had the occupation of porter.

Only the official signed the Act, because the others could not write.

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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby uzzk23a » 13 Jul 2010, 22:47

Tessa:

Thanks so much for doing this - I appreciate it !

Was there no age given for Stefano's wife, Giuseppa Licata ?

Also, my grandfather (Tommaso) came to the USA at age 10. When he later married, he gave his father's name as Antonio to the church - is Stefano or Antonio ever used as a nickname or familiar name for the other ?

I hope I have the right record ...
Name: Thomas Cular, but surname got changed (matches)
Mother's Name: Giuseppa Licata (matches)
Birth date: 15 May 1885 (well, close)
Birth place: sounded like "Shark" to his Irish wife (Sciacca)
I checked all birth records for the town of Sciacca in May 1885, and this was the only record matching his mother's name.

Thanks again,
Craig
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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby Tessa78 » 13 Jul 2010, 23:45

Hello Craig :-)

No age was given for Giuseppa. Not uncommon...

Don't think Antonio and Stefano are "interchangeable". However, often there was a second name (Antonio Stefano or Stefano Antonio) to distinguish members of the family with the same first name - common.

Date is close. You might want to check the months before and after May, and the years before and after 1885 to be sure you have the right record?

Do you have a ship manifest for Tommaso? It might give his father's name :-)

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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby uzzk23a » 14 Jul 2010, 02:34

Tessa:

Well, I was never able to successfully search passenger lists before now, not knowing the last name.
He came over as a young boy without his parents.

Now, I searched Ellis Island for Tom* Marg*
and found a Tommaso Margiotta
Born: 1885
Residence: Sciacca
passage was paid by father
whether going to join a relative: father Antonio

So, this looks promising ... or else strange coincidences !

He was traveling with Nuuria?? Margiotta, female, age 8
Have you heard of that name before ?
I may not be reading it correctly ... see:
http://a.imageshack.us/img291/6171/79779424.jpg

Thanks again,
Craig
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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby Tessa78 » 14 Jul 2010, 03:14

Hi Craig,

How exciting that you could finally locate his manifest :-)

The name you see is Nunzia...that is a "z" you see as an "r", and "u" and "n" look the same in much of the old handwriting...
Was she also going to father Antonio? Was their mother traveling with them?

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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby uzzk23a » 14 Jul 2010, 03:45

Tessa:

Yes, I have been looking for over 10 years ! Difficult to make much progress without the real last name.

Thanks for "Nunzia" - yes, they were both going to their father Antonio. I had never heard, from any family stories, about a sister in the US. Nor had I ever heard of Tommasso's father ever having been in the US - but not surprising since he was a sailor. More family mysteries to investigate !

The people before and after them on the passenger list don't seem to be related. They resided in different parts of Italy, were going to different parts of the US, and had names that did not seem related.

I will probably go in tomorrow to the local Family History Center to look at the Sciacca microfilm again - perhaps to look for Nunzia, and like you suggested, to look at adjacent months and +/- 1 year - just to be sure.

We'll see how my eyes hold out - the microfilm is hard to read.

Thanks again for all your help,
Craig
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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby Tessa78 » 14 Jul 2010, 19:41

You also might want to check the Atti di Morte for their mother. Probably the dates just before their immigration.

Must be a reason the children came without her... :-(

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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby Tessa78 » 14 Jul 2010, 20:47

On the free site.... www.pilot.familysearch.org

Some interesting listings..

Marriage of Melchiorre Margiotta (father Stefano Margiotta, mother Giuseppa Licata). Marriage taking place in 1904 in Manhattan.

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsea ... 7221&pn=p6

Marriage of Nunziata Margiotta (F-Stefano, M-Giuseppa Licata). Marriage takes place in Manhattan in 1907.

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsea ... 1237&pn=p3

From free site www.italiangen.org
NYC Marriage Index listings...

Surname Given Name Month Day Year County Certificate #Number
Margiotta Melchione Apr 3 1904 Manhattan 7127
Fiorentine Giuseppa Apr 3 1904 Manhattan 7127

You can order this Marriage record from NYC VItal records online for about $15.00
http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/vi ... iage.shtml

Also found a marriage on familysearch for Maria Margiotta in Manhattan in Jan 1904 with mother Giuseppa Licata and father Stefano...

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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby Tessa78 » 14 Jul 2010, 21:15

Just a thought Craig :roll:

The Antonio that was in New York to whom Tommaso and Nunzi were traveling...could this be an adoptive parent? Didn't you say there was a name change?

Just brainstorming.... :D

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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby uzzk23a » 14 Jul 2010, 22:30

Tessa:

Wow ... when it rains, it pours ! Thanks for all of these.

I just got back from several hours of squinting at microfilm. I had found Sciacca birth records for all three of the offspring for which you had found NYC marriage records. Plus I found another offspring, Ignazio, by Stefano and Giuseppa. Plus one more, Michele, by Stefano and a different mother ... oops !

I'm sure I will have questions about some of these ... but I have to organize things, scan in some records, etc.

I tried searching online for Giuseppa Licata's death - but the online records don't seem to cover the appropriate years, only earlier years. They must be working their way forward in indexing those records. I will have to request another microfilm reel to answer the question of her death - and I agree, if true, that would explain things.

I did search the Sciacca microfilm for any Giuseppa Licata married to an Antonio. I searched April & June 1885, May 1884, and May 1886 - and found nothing. So I really do think that Stefano and Giuseppa are the parents of my grandfather. There is just the issue of why my grandfather would refer to his father as Antonio, and even name his first-born son Anthony. Yet Nunzio, who immigrated to the US with my grandfather, gave her father as Stefano on her marriage record. Strange ...

Well, I've got some work to do before I can ask more questions.

Thanks again very much !!
Craig
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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby Tessa78 » 14 Jul 2010, 23:18

Something else to "chew on".... :-)

I found a 1902 manifest for Giuseppa Licata and son Ignazio "Licata", but they were going to husband/father of a different name than Stefano Margiotta...

When you go through the records, check the DOB of Ignazio and let me know. If it's close to the age of the child on the manifest, I'll post the manifest :-)

Maybe it was Stefano who passed? Hmmm......

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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby Tessa78 » 14 Jul 2010, 23:21

On the Michele birth record, be sure you aren't assuming that the person appearing before the official is the father. Sometimes another person would go to present the newborn, especially if the father was "away"...

Have come across that many times...


You'll have family galore!!!!

Here is manifest for Stefano Margiotta, 36, son of Michele Margiotta (probably the Michele you found the birth record for- OR a cousin) traveling with family in 1909...wife Giuseppa Mantia, children: Calogero, Michele, Rosa..

lines 8 - 12
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0011

page 2
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0011



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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby Tessa78 » 14 Jul 2010, 23:45

Craig,

Just in case you find yourself staring at microfilm looking for Stefano Margiotta's birth record...I took another look at the birth record for Tommaso and I see that Stefano's age looks like 31, not 39.... trentuno, not trentanove.

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Re: Help with Birth Record Translation, Please

Postby uzzk23a » 15 Jul 2010, 00:22

Here is the record I think is Ignazio (but I have been fooled by the letter "z" before !):
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1512 ... medres.jpg

If I am learning any Italian, I'd say he was born on January 2x, 1884.
So he would have been 18 if he accompanied his mother in 1902.


Tessa78 wrote:Something else to "chew on".... :-)

I found a 1902 manifest for Giuseppa Licata and son Ignazio "Licata", but they were going to husband/father of a different name than Stefano Margiotta...

When you go through the records, check the DOB of Ignazio and let me know. If it's close to the age of the child on the manifest, I'll post the manifest :-)

Maybe it was Stefano who passed? Hmmm......

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