documents for hopemax

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documents for hopemax

Postby oilman19 » 03 Aug 2010, 21:00

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7038 ... th1895.jpg
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/3363 ... ath188.jpg
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6871 ... th1898.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6624 ... th1891.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4287 ... th1886.jpg
http://img705.imageshack.us/i/ghiuralud ... h1892.jpg/
http://img823.imageshack.us/i/ghiuralud ... h1892.jpg/

Hi Hope,

Welcome to the forum :)

I was able to find the the above records for you. I haven't located your ggf birth yet. I'll check again. Hopefully, someone will be kind enough to translate these documents for you. Most of them have the same parents.

Jim
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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby hopemax » 05 Aug 2010, 02:20

Jim,

Thank you so much! I can see in the third image, that it references Maria Teresa Ballerino, which is my great, great grandmother! I'll definitely have to look over these closely!
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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby hopemax » 05 Aug 2010, 02:23

I should have looked at these in order. The first one is my great-grandfather's sister who is listed on the immigration manifest. Gennaro was not, so I am guessing he died while very young. My grandmother is going to be so excited!
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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby hopemax » 05 Aug 2010, 03:33

Ok, I am using my Italian primer and some examples. I am looking at the 6th link which is for my great-grandfather's brother. And I want to make sure I am doing this right

The record of birth was recorded on 19 Oct 1892 at 1:00 PM

Father: Oronzo Ghiura, age 46
residing in the same city (Santa Maria Capua Vetere), on what looks to be a street name: Corso Adriano

Birth record: 18 Oct 1892 at 5:00 AM
Mother: Teresa Ballarino

male child: Ludovico Oreste Luca Ghiura

What I haven't been able to make out is Oronzo's profession, and what it says after "Ballarino Theresa"
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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby hopemax » 05 Aug 2010, 04:11

The other two birth records, are these correct

Assunta (I can't make out the other two names, the one looks like Virginia to me, but I don't think that's right :) ) Ghiura

Recorded: 30 Oct 1895 @ 1:00 PM
Birth: 29 Oct 1895 @ 11:30 PM

Gennaro Pasquale Ferdinando Ghiura
Recorded: 21 Sept 1898 @ 8 AM
Birth: 18 Sept 1898 @ 10:00 PM

I did figure out that part of what it says after the mother's name is housewife, but the rest I am still having trouble figuring out what the words even are.

My thinking "aloud" while reviewing the documents...

I thought that by the time the family immigrated in 1906, that the father had died. Given his age at the time of these births, I think that is highly likely.

I started looking at the death records, and it appears Francisco Javerio Ghiura was born in Venosa, which is where Maria Teresa was born. I had been wondering if Oronzo and Maria Teresa were married in Santa Maria, indicating that she had moved as a child, or if they were married in Venosa and they moved as adults. Given that this Ghiura also moved from Venosa to Santa Maria, that would give credence to this theory.

I also know that another group of Ghiura's immigrated to the US from Melfi. That is only 20 km from Venosa, so they might be relations somehow too.
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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby oilman19 » 05 Aug 2010, 08:31

Hi Hope

You have done very well. :) It seems the words you are struggling with are also a challenge to my limited abilities. Your Italian primer served you better than mine. I have gotten quite an education from the wonderful posters to this forum and using my reference books when possible. However, the script is what usually defeats me. I have never before had to read cursive Italian. I am improving but have a long way to go. You have a much better grasp than I.
In the limited window I researched, I saw no marriage records. If you have a specific time frame, I will look to see if I have the microfilm for research. You are off to a good start.

Jim
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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby hopemax » 05 Aug 2010, 15:09

While I don't know Italian, I did have 3 years of high school Spanish. So the numbers and months are very similar. I also did a bunch of transcriptions for the World Archives Project on Ancestry.com. Those were English records, but it was the same type of slanted, "is than an n or two separate letters?" The other posts in this forum, were also a help because I could figure out the order the information would appear on the document.

Unfortunately, I don't have any time frame for searching for marriage documents. I just hope that we can find Guglielmo's birth record. I think the immigration manifest, in this case, is the more accurate document, than the US records, based on the date of birth for his brother Ludovico. So his birth would have occurred in the late 1889/or 1890 time frame.

And thank you again, for all your help!
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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby oilman19 » 05 Aug 2010, 16:12

I have done a reasonably thorough search of 1888-1890 with no success. :cry: I will keep looking.
I would never have guessed you were lacking in knowledge of Italian. While Spanish is similar, the spelling is quite different. You did super.
If you try to isolate the info you need from these documents, I or someone will try to translate it for you.
Since so much of the info was identical, I thought it made sense to upload all of the images together for comparison purposes.
You are well on your way. Good luck.
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby Tessa78 » 05 Aug 2010, 17:29

Hi! :-)

hopemax wrote:
What I haven't been able to make out is Oronzo's profession, and what it says after "Ballarino Theresa"


The occupation for Oronzo in the 1892 birth record is "Messo" - messenger.

After Teresa is states "sua moglie, donna di casa, secolui convivente" which translates to "his wife, housewife (lady of the house), living with him"

T.
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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby Tessa78 » 05 Aug 2010, 17:30

hopemax wrote:
Assunta (I can't make out the other two names, the one looks like Virginia to me, but I don't think that's right ) Ghiura


Assunta's middle names look like "Elmirenda" and "Virginia" ... :-)

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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby oilman19 » 05 Aug 2010, 17:41

Hi Tessa :)

I'm sure this will give Hope a good start.

Thank you
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby oilman19 » 05 Aug 2010, 17:52

Hi Hope :)

I found these 2 additional birth acts for you. I hope they help.

http://img94.imageshack.us/i/ghiurafran ... th188.jpg/
http://img687.imageshack.us/i/ghiurafra ... th188.jpg/
http://img6.imageshack.us/i/ghiuraoraziobirth1887.jpg/

I notice that Francesco & Orazio are not siblings.
Jim

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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby hopemax » 05 Aug 2010, 18:17

Thank you Tessa and Jim!

Looking briefly, Orazio does belong to my family. Which, is very interesting to me. I have a census record for an Orazio Ghiura and his wife Anna living in Brooklyn. I always wondered if this was an older brother than had come to America before the rest of the family. My grandmother claims she was named after her grandmother Anna, but I now have several records that her grandmother was Maria Teresa. She said that Anna would come to visit on occasion, but I wonder now if this Anna was actually an aunt. I guess I am going to rack her brain a bit more.
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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby oilman19 » 05 Aug 2010, 18:52

Were you able to glean enough info from these documents?

I'm not sure if you solved some mysteries, or, as seemed to be the case with my ancestors, created some new ones. At any rate, it looks like you will be spending some quality time with grandma.

May your journey be successful.
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: documents for hopemax

Postby hopemax » 05 Aug 2010, 19:43

Yes, the documents have been very helpful. It's nice to have confirmation that the family was in Santa Maria, parents names, and the additional sibling info. But, yes, just as many questions as answers.

Do you have the files for post-1900? There was another girl on the immigration manifest, Maria Grazia born about 1901. And I am also wondering if there is a recorded death for Gennaro, the child not on the manifest, and also Oronzo, the father. The family immigrated in Oct 1906, so there would be many years to search, although I am quite willing to obtain the microfilms and search myself.

On that note, do you think there is a benefit to me to request the records for the time periods you have already searched? The impetus for this search was to find Guglielmo's birth record, which, alas is still missing. And I want to make sure I have done everything I can to find it. Orazio's birth in 1887, to this family, in Santa Maria implies they should have been there when Guglielmo was born. Ah, mysteries.
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