Cause of Death

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sbellarosa
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Cause of Death

Postby sbellarosa » 25 Aug 2010, 21:05

I'm trying to understand what happened to a mother and her son to cause a sudden death in 1847. I have attached two death notices. Can anyone translate the hand written text? It looks like it starts with "e morto nella Lelva Castagnale....".

Thanks

SB

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Lucap
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Re: Cause of Death

Postby Lucap » 25 Aug 2010, 22:46

... nel giorno 6 del mese di ottobre anno 1847 alle ore 21 è morta nella Selva Castagnale denominata Casa dei Preti alla montagna, posta in questo tenimento, e propriamente in un così detto pagliaio ( http://www.google.it/imgres?imgurl=http ... 9,r:29,s:0 ) ivi esistente, che caduto ha portato la morte di Rosolina Draguni...

L.

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sbellarosa
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Re: Cause of Death

Postby sbellarosa » 25 Aug 2010, 22:53

Questo è un pagliaio molto grande. Grazie mille.

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maestra36
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Re: Cause of Death

Postby maestra36 » 25 Aug 2010, 23:08

Luca
The word after montagna is sita and not posta (sita meaning situated or located)

It says that on the 6th of the month of October 1847 at 9 P.M. is dead in the Castagnale Forest named House of the Priests in the mountain, located in this (tenimento???), and properly in a thing called pagliaio existing therein, that fell- has brought about the death of Rosolina Draguni.

This is the literal translation of the words typed by Luca and not a very good translation at all.

So, Luca, am I to understand that the structure referred to as a "pagliaio" collapsed and was the cause of the death of this Rosolina Draguni??? Just want to make sure my understanding is correct.

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maestra36
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Re: Cause of Death

Postby maestra36 » 25 Aug 2010, 23:15

The second document has the same date and time of death as the first document. Rosolina was 45 and Giuseppe was 17.

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Re: Cause of Death

Postby maestra36 » 25 Aug 2010, 23:18

do you need any other information from these documents translated?

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PeterTimber
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Re: Cause of Death

Postby PeterTimber » 25 Aug 2010, 23:20

pagliaio is a Hay in a Loft or a close approximation for hay storage. =Peter=
~Peter~

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sbellarosa
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Re: Cause of Death

Postby sbellarosa » 25 Aug 2010, 23:25

That answers most of my questions. I wasn't sure what a haystack would look like from that era and how it could kill two people.

I wonder why people would be inside the haystack - perhaps they had a hollowed out shelter inside.

Thanks for the help.

SB

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Re: Cause of Death

Postby maestra36 » 25 Aug 2010, 23:29

Peter
Thanks for your explanation. Did you look at the link with the photo which Luca gave this researcher concerning the word pagliaio? It looks like a structure built from hay and that's why I am asking if the structure collapsed and killed these people who perhaps were inside of it. The picture in the link from Luca shows what appears to be a door at the front and a ladder on the outside of this almost cone shaped structure.
Peg

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Re: Cause of Death

Postby sbellarosa » 25 Aug 2010, 23:48

Thanks to everyone who responded. That was very helpful.

SB

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Lucap
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Re: Cause of Death

Postby Lucap » 26 Aug 2010, 08:03

@Maestra
La parola è indubbiamente "sita" (con lo stesso significato di "posta", ma è comunque sita).
Non so che struttura avesse il pagliaio, se a modo di soffitta o proprio a covone. Forse avete ragione voi ed era una struttura in legno sopraelevata, ma anche un covone (e ne facevano di enormi!) quando collassa sposta quintali, se non tonnellate, di paglia e i risultati per il malcapitato che si trova sotto non è che siano tanto diversi. Ad ogni modo questa è la definizione che dànno alcuni dizionari d'italiano a proposito di pagliaio:

http://dizionari.hoepli.it/Dizionario_I ... &lettera=P
pagliaio
[pa-glià-io]
region. pagliaro
s.m. (pl. -gliài)
1 Grande mucchio di paglia ammassata all'aperto in forma di cupola intorno a un palo che sporge in alto
? Mucchio di paglia di qualsiasi forma


http://www.sapere.it/sapere/dizionari/d ... h=pagliaio
pagliaio
n.m. [pl. -ai], region. pagliaro [pl. -i] 1 grande cumulo di paglia o fieno sorretto da un palo centrale, per lo più di forma conica | cercare un ago in un pagliaio, ( fig.) tentare una ricerca difficilissima o addirittura impossibile 2 edificio rustico dove si tiene la paglia

http://www.treccani.it/Portale/elements ... 088463.xml
pagliaio
pagliàio (region. pagliaro) s. m. [lat. palearium, der. di palea «paglia»]. – 1. a. Cumulo di paglia a forma di cono, generalmente situato in prossimità di case coloniche, eretto pressando e ammassando il materiale intorno a un palo di sostegno (detto stollo) infisso nel terreno, per conservare e proteggere dalla pioggia la paglia destinata al bestiame;
........
[ma anche:]
b. Più genericam., mucchio di paglia di qualsiasi forma, o anche ambiente, locale rustico in cui si tiene della paglia. 2. ant. Cumulo di grano, di fieno o d’altro (donde la necessità di opportune specificazioni): andarono in su un’aia, dove era un grande p. di paglia (Sacchetti).

Quindi il pagliaio è generalmente considerato quello all'aperto, paglia ammassata attorno ad un palo, però potrebbe anche essere una struttura al chiuso.

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maestra36
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Re: Cause of Death

Postby maestra36 » 26 Aug 2010, 12:40

Luca, ho capito che "posta" ha lo stesso significato di "sita." Molte grazie per i significati diversi della parola "pagliaio." Anche io possedo parecchi dizionari italiani.
Peg

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Re: Cause of Death

Postby PeterTimber » 26 Aug 2010, 12:50

Maestra I didn't look at the drawing but the term had to be an Italian version of an American hayloft to store Hay in some shape or form usually designed to be kept dry to avoid hay rot which can destroy the collected hay for winter use. =Peter=
~Peter~

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maestra36
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Re: Cause of Death

Postby maestra36 » 26 Aug 2010, 18:23

Thanks again, Peter. When I have, in the past, researched the Italian occupations of my own ancestors, I have not only looked at various definitions in the current Italian dictionaries, but also at Italian websites such as the one found by Luca to help me better understand what the occupations meant in the days when my ancestors engaged in them. I just had never before come across this particular occupation, even in helping others with their Italian records.


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