five characters on the cover of the passport

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five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby timo » 30 Sep 2010, 20:20

I am trying to figure out what these four characters signify.

1 9 ? 4 ·

It it April 19th?

Is the third character from the left a rather ornate slash? Or is it something else?

See attached image.

Thanks
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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby johnnyonthespot » 30 Sep 2010, 20:49

Curiously, I reviewed the images of several passports from a similar time period and not a single one had any remotely similar markings on the front cover. Most had no markings at all.
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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby Tessa78 » 30 Sep 2010, 20:53

I would have guessed that the third character was a "5" and that it read "1954"

I think it reads "13(or 19) Agosto 1954"

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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby johnnyonthespot » 30 Sep 2010, 22:16

Tessa78 wrote:I would have guessed that the third character was a "5" and that it read "1954"

I think it reads "13(or 19) Agosto 1954"

T.


I agree on the date, however that looks like a "Regno D'Italia" passport and they went out of business at the end of WWII, didn't they?

So, maybe the markings are not contemporary (that is, not original) but added much, much, later?
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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby Tessa78 » 30 Sep 2010, 23:37

Carmine :-)

I defer to your knowledge of passports...
If you feel that the date can't be later than late 40's, then I agree.

I do think, though, that the number resembles many "5's" I've seen on manifests...
I think I'll look further into the shape of this character :-)

T.
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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby liviomoreno » 01 Oct 2010, 07:23

The date is definitely 13 agosto 1954 and is not the date when the passport was issued.
I don't understand why Carmine believes it was a "Regno d'Italia" passport...
The passport was printed in the typography of the Foreign affairs department (Ministero degli Affari Esteri).
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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby johnnyonthespot » 01 Oct 2010, 09:33

liviomoreno wrote:The date is definitely 13 agosto 1954 and is not the date when the passport was issued.
I don't understand why Carmine believes it was a "Regno d'Italia" passport...
The passport was printed in the typography of the Foreign affairs department (Ministero degli Affari Esteri).


Livio, I thought it was odd, but I did find this image: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... 08&bih=655

Where there is one, there must be more. Perhaps this was a transitional passport, used between the end of the war and the formal change to Repubblica Italiana?
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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby liviomoreno » 01 Oct 2010, 09:43

johnnyonthespot wrote:
Livio, I thought it was odd, but I did find this image: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... 08&bih=655


You are correct, they look identical!
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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby johnnyonthespot » 01 Oct 2010, 09:54

liviomoreno wrote:You are correct, they look identical!


:D
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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby timo » 01 Oct 2010, 10:03

Well, I wasn't trying to trick anybody by cutting the top off. I was focusing on the strange glyph.

Could this have been a reissued passport? It belonged to my great-grandfather, born in 1872. He emigrated in 1911.
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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby liviomoreno » 01 Oct 2010, 10:15

I doubt that the August 19, 1954 date has any official meaning related to the passport. There are also other numbers(12 and 215) on the cover that have no meaning to me.
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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby johnnyonthespot » 01 Oct 2010, 10:29

timo wrote:Well, I wasn't trying to trick anybody by cutting the top off. I was focusing on the strange glyph.

Could this have been a reissued passport? It belonged to my great-grandfather, born in 1872. He emigrated in 1911.


Hi, Timo.

You have opened a curiosity...

If you don't mind, which comune issued the passport? What is the issue date? Would you mind showing us the inside pages?
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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby johnnyonthespot » 01 Oct 2010, 10:44

liviomoreno wrote:The passport was printed in the typography of the Foreign affairs department (Ministero degli Affari Esteri).


Livio, the Ministero degli Affari Esteri existed always, even in 1861?

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elenco_dei ... o_d'Italia

So, perhaps some passports say Ministero degli Affari Esteri on the cover and others did not: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... 29,r:1,s:0
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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby timo » 01 Oct 2010, 10:53

Comune: Pietraperzia (Sicilia)

This passport is in the possession of my cousin, who has sent me some photographs using his cell phone camera. Since he and I have not discussed my displaying the photos on a public website, I have redacted the names and identifying information.

P.S. I don't know anything about Italian penmanship but this writing on the cover is definitely not American. This writing has a practiced flair. Almost certainly it was not written by my great-grandfather who according to the passport was analfabeta. My grandfather's handwriting and my grandmother's look nothing like this. I've never seen my great-grandmother's handwriting, but have no reason to believe she was any more literate than my great-grandfather.
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Re: five characters on the cover of the passport

Postby timo » 01 Oct 2010, 14:35

Could the August date on the front cover have had something to do with the 16 agosto 1911 date inside, and the "per tre anni" qualification? Any chance that the unusual glyph is not a 5 but a 1? So the front cover would read

? Agosto
1914
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