2 issues on marriage record?

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2 issues on marriage record?

Postby oilman19 » 08 Oct 2010, 23:34

http://img46.imageshack.us/i/iannottapa ... arr18.jpg/
http://img59.imageshack.us/i/iannottapa ... arr18.jpg/

I have 2 issues with this marriage document.

1. Is it likely the groom had the same given name as his father or is this possibly an error?
2. Is the groom's mother's name Orsola Merola (deceased)?

Thank you for your help. :)
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby maestra36 » 09 Oct 2010, 00:04

Father and son have the same first name and, yes, the mother Orsola is deceased. The father was living with the son.
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby maestra36 » 09 Oct 2010, 00:05

Her maiden name was Merola
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby oilman19 » 09 Oct 2010, 00:08

Does that make him a "junior" and, at some point in time, wasn't that illegal?

Thank you
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby maestra36 » 09 Oct 2010, 00:09

According to item # 3 in the list at the top of page two, the mother of the groom died in this town.
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby maestra36 » 09 Oct 2010, 00:19

There was something on this forum about it being illegal to have a son named for oneself, but I have never read that anywhere, Jim. My husband's paternal grandfather was a Vincenzo, as was his father, and his paternal grandfather. The paternal grandfather had died months before his son was born, so I assume the wife then named her child after her deceased husband, the child's father. I guess then that son, once married, named his first born after his father as well.
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby maestra36 » 09 Oct 2010, 00:20

Not sure my post is clear. I am talking about three generations with the first name Vincenzo.
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby maestra36 » 09 Oct 2010, 00:53

Jim
In Trafford Cole's book advertised in the left column of this forum page, on page 54, he talks about one naming one's son after oneself being illegal in Italy. You can access the page yourself. Just put "google books" in your search engine and the title of the book. You need page 54.

Italian genealogical records: how to use Italian civil, ecclesiastical ...
By Trafford R. Cole.p.54
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby oilman19 » 09 Oct 2010, 01:02

I thought I had seen something about it on the forum. Somehow I thought someone indicated it had been illegal.
I have seen this circumstance on some other records I haven't yet used in my family tree. I hadn't dealt with it until now.
I have to say I have seen many juniors in Italian families once they emigrated to U.S. Apparently it was not very prevalent on Italian soil.

Thank you, Peg
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby maestra36 » 09 Oct 2010, 01:17

Cole makes a point of saying that, even in earlier periods (in Italy), a father's name was normally given to his son only if the father died before the son's birth.

This is what happened in my husband's ancestry.

Vincenzo-born in 1829 died in Aug of 1862. His wife was pregnant at the time of his death. His son, born in Dec of 1862, was then given the first name Vincenzo. So, the 1862 Vincenzo was named for the 1829 Vincenzo, his father, who died before he was born.

Then Vincenzo born in 1862 had a son born in 1891. He gave that son the name Vincenzo as well. But the 1891 Vincenzo was named, not for his father, but for his paternal grandfather who died in 1862.
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby oilman19 » 16 Oct 2010, 12:17

http://img836.imageshack.us/i/palladino ... elobi.jpg/
http://img186.imageshack.us/i/palladino ... elobi.jpg/

I have found a birth act from the above referenced couple.
Please note that he is now referred to as Michele (not Michelangelo). Any comments? Could his name have been changed? Is Michele a shortened form (nickname?) of Michelangelo?
This is very interesting.

Also, I need a hand translating the marriage annotation on this birth act, specifically the bride's name, date, and where it occurred. :?:

Thank you
Jim

Researching surnames Ianniello, Tamburrino, Mattora/Martora/Mattori & Scialla in Santa Maria Capua Vetere, Caserta, Campania.
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby maestra36 » 16 Oct 2010, 12:58

The marriage notation -

date of marriage Feb 21, 1875. Bride's name was Orsola Contestabile-she was from S, Andrea dei Lagni (that was a frazione of SMCV, as I recall, that we've seen in other records. The marriage took place in SMCV. The groom is Michelangelo in the notation
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby maestra36 » 16 Oct 2010, 13:00

The other image is not loading for some reason. I only see the top two lines and then it stops loading, at least on my computer
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby maestra36 » 16 Oct 2010, 13:03

as to Michelangelo vs. Michele, I have seen shortened versions of first names on subsequent records. So Filippantonio might be just Filippo, etc.
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Re: 2 issues on marriage record?

Postby maestra36 » 16 Oct 2010, 13:03

the shortened version does not indicate a legal change in the first name though
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