occhi celesti occhi cerulei

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occhi celesti occhi cerulei

Postby timo » 20 Oct 2010, 12:59

Was it the convention to use celesti for females and cerulei for males or were these interchangeable?
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Re: occhi celesti occhi cerulei

Postby nazca » 23 Oct 2010, 15:15

Hi,
ceruleum in an ancient latin word which means "sky". "Celeste" is the color "cerulei" means a color like the sky (ligh blue)

regards.
I'm searching lost relatives and descendant of my greatgrandfather Vincenzo Genualdi (or Gennaldi or Genuardi) and my greatgrandmother Concetta Davola (their sons: Angela, Carmela, Antonio, Bartolomeo, Ernesto, Simone, Riccardo, Maria) went in Chicago,Ill., and New Orleans, in 1880-1920 from Sicily. Other family related : Jacobucci or Jacopucci (from Central Italy).
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Re: occhi celesti occhi cerulei

Postby timo » 23 Oct 2010, 23:29

Thanks for the reply, nazca.

Are you saying that the two words (celesti, cerulei) were simply distinguishing between shades of blue, and that gender had nothing to do with which word was used? Attached is a page from my GGM's 1912 passport. My GGF's eyes are "cerulei" on his 1911 passport.

By the way, the local supermarket where we do our food shopping is called Genuardi's. I believe they were headquartered in Pennsylvania before being acquired by a national chain.

http://www.genuardis.com/ifl/grocery/Our-Story

http://www.genuardis.com/IFL/Grocery/Home
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Re: occhi celesti occhi cerulei

Postby nazca » 24 Oct 2010, 08:50

Hi Timo,
yes cerulei and celesti are shades of blue but what you read in a document maybe is not the true. In my documents for a very long time my hair was defined brown but when i was young my hair was dark black. It depend how the clerk see your eyes or your hair. Now the word cerulei is no more used and someone don't know what it means :(
I tried the links but don't work now. I'll try later. My GF's brother had a shop in Chicago (baker?), he died in Florida, and his surname was changed in Genuardi. Genuardi and Genualdi are surname localized in Sicily.

have a nice day.
I'm searching lost relatives and descendant of my greatgrandfather Vincenzo Genualdi (or Gennaldi or Genuardi) and my greatgrandmother Concetta Davola (their sons: Angela, Carmela, Antonio, Bartolomeo, Ernesto, Simone, Riccardo, Maria) went in Chicago,Ill., and New Orleans, in 1880-1920 from Sicily. Other family related : Jacobucci or Jacopucci (from Central Italy).
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Re: occhi celesti occhi cerulei

Postby timo » 24 Oct 2010, 19:06

Thanks for the additional information. "Cerulean" is not commonly used in English nowadays either; it is a word a poet or a novelist might use, or a painter; it was never used in civil records or other administrative contexts such as passports. It was a small delight to see these old passports using celesti & cerulei instead of azzuri.

In case the Genuardi's link doesn't work, here's an excerpt that might prove useful:

The Legacy of Genuardi's began in 1920, when Gaspare Genuardi and his wife, Josephine, grew vegetables on a small farm in Norristown, near Philadelphia. ... Gaspare and Josephine were the parents of nine children; five of their sons entered the business and helped to make it grow.
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