Translation of birth record, please.

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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby maestra36 » 23 Oct 2010, 13:08

Tessa78 wrote:My dictionary defines "civile" as "private citizen, civilian" :-)

And the signature of the second witness definitely has an "i" at the end.

T.


T
Two things-concerning the surname=Caputo, it may have ended in an "i" in the document, and not an "o"-in a lot of records I have seen, in which the surname appears, sometimes it has an "i" at the end and, at other times, in the same town, it ends in an "o." The surname you gave did not exist in the town.

Secondly, about the occupation "civile"-I found the following information:

"civile" era utilizzato per indicare una persona benestante priva di titoli accademici, ma con caratteristiche culturali elevate rispetto alla massa

"civile" was utilized to indicate a well-off person denied or deprived of academic titles, but with elevated cultural characteristics respected by the mass (rest of the population)
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby liviomoreno » 23 Oct 2010, 13:22

Francesco Paolo Caputi was witness to all the three records in the page and the name always ends with an "i", also in the signatures...
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby maestra36 » 23 Oct 2010, 14:28

Tessa78 wrote:Hi Debi! :-)

This is Birth Act #32
On 6 May 1876 at 9:40 AM at the Town Hall, before the official in Saponara di Grumento, appeared Nicola Latorraca, 32, peasant farmer, residing in Saponara, to declare that at 9:30 AM on the 3rd of the current month at the house on Via Mancoso (sp?), to Filomena Petrocelli, his wife, peasant farmer, living with him, was born a female child to whom was given the name Maria Carmela.
Witnesses:
Francesco Roselli, 56, citizen
Francesco Paolo Capriti, 26, citizen.

T.


Livio,
Tessa had originally transcribed the surname as Capriti, in her post above. In this record it may be Caputi, but in other towns, I have seen the surname spelled as both Caputi and Caputo for the same individuals.
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby Tessa78 » 23 Oct 2010, 18:38

maestra36 wrote:also the word civile is normally translated as landowner-never have seen it translated as citizen


Hi Peg,

"civile" was utilized to indicate a well-off person denied or deprived of academic titles, but with elevated cultural characteristics respected by the mass (rest of the population)

Not sure this supports your translation as "landowner." :-)

T.
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby maestra36 » 23 Oct 2010, 19:13

Hi T
Not sure it does either, but landowner is given as the translation on the various lists of Italian occupations and their English equivalents, on the internet. Your definition of citizen, however, is a current dictionary definition, and not necessarily the meaning of the occupation in these various civil records from past centuries either. I think we both need to rethink the translation of this occupation in these documents.
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby maestra36 » 23 Oct 2010, 19:27

I should add, however, that if a "civile" was a well-off individual, then he probably did own land.
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby DebiHarbuck » 23 Oct 2010, 19:52

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate all of this. Here's another record for a child born to Nicola and Filomena; would you? It starts on the bottom of the first image, and most is on the second page.

Page 1 http://postimage.org/image/gf4b8jwk/

Page 2 http://postimage.org/image/cufzn6mc/
Roccanova/Magistra/Rubertone/Paduano of Craco, Matera, Basilicata AND Latorraca/Cassino/Petrocelli/Peluso of Saponara di Grumento (now Grumento Nova) & Moliterno, Potenza, Basilicata
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby maestra36 » 23 Oct 2010, 20:56

Birth record #240 for Maria Carmela Latorraca-

Dated Nov 23, 1874 Moliterno

Informant: Nicola Latorraca, of deceased Giuseppantonio, age 30, a farmhand presented a feminine baby born on the 20th at 4 P.M. to his wife, Filomena Petrocelli, of deceased Pasquale, age 25 who was living with him on via M (have to check on the spelling of the street name). The infant was given the name Maria Carmela.

The witnesses were chosen by him:

Nicola Petrocelli of deceased Giuseppe, age 65, day laborer

and (Carlo???) Latorraca, of deceased Francesco, age 60, farmhand

Both witnesses were living here in this town.
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby maestra36 » 23 Oct 2010, 21:04

I can't find the street name on a current map. Here is a link in case you have better luck.

http://en.comuni-italiani.it/089/019/mappa.html

The spelling in the record looks like Murorotto or something close to that.
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby DebiHarbuck » 23 Oct 2010, 21:16

And, if these say what I think they say, the first two Marias both died at about 1 year old?

Death record for Maria, 1873? http://postimage.org/image/da5lfvic/

Death record for the first Maria Carmela, 1875?

http://postimage.org/image/daitqngk/

And then, from the first record I posted, my ggm Maria Carmela was born in 1876 in Saponara di Grumento.
Roccanova/Magistra/Rubertone/Paduano of Craco, Matera, Basilicata AND Latorraca/Cassino/Petrocelli/Peluso of Saponara di Grumento (now Grumento Nova) & Moliterno, Potenza, Basilicata
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby Tessa78 » 23 Oct 2010, 21:19

Maria 1873 was one year old.

Maria Carmela 1875 was 8 months old.

T.
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby maestra36 » 23 Oct 2010, 21:27

I see the street name in the death records which looks like Menrorotto or Menrocotto.
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby DebiHarbuck » 23 Oct 2010, 21:27

Thank you, Tessa. Are the dates of death given? And, is the cause of death, perhaps, listed?

I am trying to make sense of what they say, but must confess most words beyond the names are a mystery to me.
Roccanova/Magistra/Rubertone/Paduano of Craco, Matera, Basilicata AND Latorraca/Cassino/Petrocelli/Peluso of Saponara di Grumento (now Grumento Nova) & Moliterno, Potenza, Basilicata
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby maestra36 » 23 Oct 2010, 21:31

causes of death are normally not given in Italian civil records
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Re: Translation of birth record, please.

Postby Tessa78 » 23 Oct 2010, 21:40

Are the dates of death given?


For the first... looks like she died on 16 November 1873.

The second... she died on the 28 of July 1875. (though the declaration was made on the 29th)

And as Peg stated, there is no cause of death...

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