What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di Cosel

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Apples
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What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di Cosel

Postby Apples » 13 Nov 2010, 09:39

My 2x great grandfathers birth act states that his parents were legally married "della Cura di Coselli Carme? ne? di Capannori provinsia di Lucca"

What does Cura mean in this instance - I know that Coselli is very small but does have a church. Or is Cura di Coselli a separate place??

I cannot read the two words between Coselli and Capannori as the first one runs off the page and the second is too small so I have just written my best approximation.

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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby Cherry » 13 Nov 2010, 10:48

I believe Cura stands for Parish.
I don't know if there's a particular hierarchy in these different way to call them, mostly sure there is, but in Italian you can call a priest: Prete or Curato.
So, the Curato must have a Cura, a church at least.
So the sentence should say that they got married in Coselli's church.
Cheers,
Flo

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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby liviomoreno » 13 Nov 2010, 14:17

I suggest that you post the birth act so that we can better decipher...

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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby Apples » 13 Nov 2010, 22:39

Thanks cherry - I wonder if anyone knows if there is an hierarchy?

Sorry Livio I don't have a scanner :-(

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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby Tessa78 » 14 Nov 2010, 02:15

"cura" can also refer to treatment or care...

Such as "Casa di Cura" a treatment facility... a nursing home...sanitarium

I didn't think "cura" referred to a church or the like :-?

T.

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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby Cherry » 14 Nov 2010, 09:28

Apples wrote:Thanks cherry - I wonder if anyone knows if there is an hierarchy?

Sorry Livio I don't have a scanner :-(


I found out the hierarchy, although in Italian:
Il Curato è il presbitero che regge (o meglio reggeva) una curazia, ovvero una chiesa minore o cappella dotata di propri beni patrimoniali (beneficio ecclesiastico curato), dipendente da una pieve (chiesa matrice), ma che aveva ottenuto il fonte battesimale ed il cimitero ed un cappellano residente, chiamato appunto curato (presbitero con compiti di cura d'anime). Il curato dipendeva dunque da un pievano, ma aveva ampia autonomia. Spesso, nel passato, la comunità oggetto della cura esercitava il giuspatronato, cioè il diritto di scegliere il presbitero (e di sottoporlo alla nomina dell'autorità ecclesiastica competente) assicurandone il mantenimento. Le curazìe si sono evolute quasi tutte in parrocchie. Il termine è oggi usato genericamente anche per indicare un parroco o un vicario parrocchiale.
:-P

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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby Apples » 14 Nov 2010, 11:53

Cherry wrote:I found out the hierarchy, although in Italian:
Il Curato è il presbitero che regge (o meglio reggeva) una curazia, ovvero una chiesa minore o cappella dotata di propri beni patrimoniali (beneficio ecclesiastico curato), dipendente da una pieve (chiesa matrice), ma che aveva ottenuto il fonte battesimale ed il cimitero ed un cappellano residente, chiamato appunto curato (presbitero con compiti di cura d'anime). Il curato dipendeva dunque da un pievano, ma aveva ampia autonomia. Spesso, nel passato, la comunità oggetto della cura esercitava il giuspatronato, cioè il diritto di scegliere il presbitero (e di sottoporlo alla nomina dell'autorità ecclesiastica competente) assicurandone il mantenimento. Le curazìe si sono evolute quasi tutte in parrocchie. Il termine è oggi usato genericamente anche per indicare un parroco o un vicario parrocchiale.
:-P


Thanks Cherry :D
Can anybody translate this?- both google and babelfish made no sense of it at all!

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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby johnnyonthespot » 14 Nov 2010, 13:56

Apples wrote:My 2x great grandfathers birth act states that his parents were legally married "della Cura di Coselli Carme? ne? di Capannori provinsia di Lucca"

What does Cura mean in this instance - I know that Coselli is very small but does have a church. Or is Cura di Coselli a separate place??

I cannot read the two words between Coselli and Capannori as the first one runs off the page and the second is too small so I have just written my best approximation.


The last six words seem likely to be "comnue di Capannori, provincia di Lucca (the town of Capannori in the province of Lucca).

Based upon the known translation for cura (see http://www.wordreference.com/iten/cura ), "della Cura di Coselli Carme..." (possibly Carmela??) may refer to a doctor's office or some such. Maybe even the home of a midwife? Hint: Caselli is not only the name of a frazione of Capannori, but also a surname common in the town: http://www.paginebianche.it/execute.cgi ... nnori&l=en
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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby Cherry » 14 Nov 2010, 14:39

Apples wrote:
Cherry wrote:I found out the hierarchy, although in Italian:
Il Curato è il presbitero che regge (o meglio reggeva) una curazia, ovvero una chiesa minore o cappella dotata di propri beni patrimoniali (beneficio ecclesiastico curato), dipendente da una pieve (chiesa matrice), ma che aveva ottenuto il fonte battesimale ed il cimitero ed un cappellano residente, chiamato appunto curato (presbitero con compiti di cura d'anime). Il curato dipendeva dunque da un pievano, ma aveva ampia autonomia. Spesso, nel passato, la comunità oggetto della cura esercitava il giuspatronato, cioè il diritto di scegliere il presbitero (e di sottoporlo alla nomina dell'autorità ecclesiastica competente) assicurandone il mantenimento. Le curazìe si sono evolute quasi tutte in parrocchie. Il termine è oggi usato genericamente anche per indicare un parroco o un vicario parrocchiale.
:-P


Thanks Cherry :D
Can anybody translate this?- both google and babelfish made no sense of it at all!


It says that a Curazia, was a small church provided with some patrimonial benefits, and the Curato was the Priest in charge of this. Usually the Curae were in small villages. The Curato and his activities depended formally on a larger church, called the Pieve, although he used to have a large indipendece. Often, the community in which the Curazia was chose its Curato and then was responsible for his subsistence.

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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby Apples » 15 Nov 2010, 00:27

Thanks again Cherry I think this is a good explanation as Coselli is a very small village it does have a church but only a few houses. I wonder if the parish records were kept by the Curato or at the larger church?

I think jonnyonthespot is right that the two words between Coselli and Capannori are in fact just the one word 'commune' but it has been written in two parts as it ran off the end of the page! :-) Ta

This would make the sentence read:-
A di 5 Aprile 1830 cinque Samuele di Luigi Roberti e di Assunta Romani legittimi coniugi della Cura di Coselli Commune di Capannori provincia di Lucca......etc

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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby johnnyonthespot » 15 Nov 2010, 01:50

Apples wrote:I think jonnyonthespot is right that the two words between Coselli and Capannori are in fact just the one word 'commune' but it has been written in two parts as it ran off the end of the page! :-) Ta


It is an amusing fact of Italian writing (I belive even today) that it never occurs to anyone to use a hyphen to indicate that a word is continued on the next line. Also, Italian syllabification is not natural to most native English speakers, making the split lines even less obvious.

PS: I meant to add: just one "m" in Comune. :)
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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby DebiHarbuck » 15 Nov 2010, 01:54

johnnyonthespot wrote:
It is an amusing fact of Italian writing (I believe even today) that it never occurs to anyone to use a hyphen to indicate that a word is continued on the next line. Also, Italian syllabification is not natural to most native English speakers, making the split lines even less obvious.


Oh, thank goodness. I just thought these folks in Moliterno were sloppy!
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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby Tessa78 » 15 Nov 2010, 03:22

Very often you will find a small double underline at the end of a sentence when a word has been split... It has more to do with space than syllables :-)

T.

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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby Cherry » 15 Nov 2010, 10:02

The common symbol for a word that has been broken in two lines is =
Example:
co=
mune

or
comu=
ne

the confusion and difficulties about hyphenation is completely mutual from the "Italian" point of view vs English. I remember my English teacher saying: don't even try to split a word into two lines, because English syllabise randomly, and so you would do wrong in any case..." ;-)
Apples:
" I wonder if the parish records were kept by the Curato or at the larger church?" I think that the Curato kept his records, but nowadays probably they are kept the parish from which the priest is sent to say mass. I try to be clearer: in very small villages, where just a dozen of people live now, there's no more a "local" priest or curato. There's a parish, in a near and probably bigger village who does all the work, going from village to village to say mass. So it happens in my father's village, so there's a general mass every Sunday at 9 am and a rosario every once in a while, usually on Friday. And my baptism record is kept in the archive of the larger church.
Cheers,
Flo

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Re: What does 'cura' mean in "della Cura di C

Postby Apples » 15 Nov 2010, 14:44

I have found a fantastic web site for anyone looking up Churches in the Comune of Capannori. It has a number of pictures and a brief history for each church (in italian) and if you go to the home page you can get more details about Capannori including a list of Le frazioni and pictures for each one.

http://www.piccolapenna.it/Chiese%20di%20Capannori.htm

So the final answer to the puzzle is:-

"La chiesa di Coselli (fine XVIII secolo) è a una navata e dipendeva dalla Pieve di Vorno."

Thanks everybody :-D


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