Poor image quality...Need some help with translation.

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rancelli
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Poor image quality...Need some help with translation.

Postby rancelli » 26 Jun 2011, 23:00

thanks so much tessa...

I'm looking for the year of when this took place. my great grandparents were married around 1887 or 88. Someone from facebook told me that he thought the date was 1887. milleottocentottanta and then sette on the blank line. it can also be seen on the right as well. I'm also looking for the ages of Luigi and Margherita on this record.



http://postimage.org/image/2tnxdb0hw/ab0634b4/



Here is another one...On the bottom does the last name look like Buccelli to you? It looks like Buccella was the original and that can be found up top. I would like more info if possible, if not no biggie. I basically want the year this was put together and the ages of these people.

http://postimage.org/image/2ttupms78/c3f1ca79/


This one will be the hardest. I thought this was a birth record but I was told that this might be a death record. I don't expect a full translation here. Key dates will be helpful if you can make those out. Thank you

http://postimage.org/image/1l55fd2jo/

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Tessa78
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Re: Poor image quality...Need some help with translation.

Postby Tessa78 » 26 Jun 2011, 23:12

Hi again! :-)

I posted an answer to your first image in your original post...

topic22258.html

Will take a look at the other two now :-)

T.

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Re: Poor image quality...Need some help with translation.

Postby Tessa78 » 26 Jun 2011, 23:14

On image two (about the spelling of Bucelli/Bucella)
Last line looks like it reads "Luigi Bucelli, sposo" - But I think it actually reads "Luigi Bucella..."
I know it looks like a dot over the last netter...but throughout the document it is spelled with an "a"

T.

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Re: Poor image quality...Need some help with translation.

Postby Tessa78 » 26 Jun 2011, 23:37

The third one is a BIRTH record for Margherita Marigliano(sp?)

Record is dated 30 April 1869 at 10 AM at the Town hall in Caggiano

Appearing before the official and presenting the child was Margherita P???arelli, daughter of deceased Gennaro, age 70, midwife, residing in Caggiano on Strada Capolungo, to declare that on 29 April at 11 AM to Carmina T???, daughter of deceased Sebastiano, age 28, and wife of Giuseppe Marigliano son of Vincenzo, age 40 - a peasant farmer living in Caggiano on Strada Capolungo, was born a female child who by the parents intention was given the name Margherita.

Not sure why the father was not there to present... will have to look closer..

T.

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Re: Poor image quality...Need some help with translation.

Postby rancelli » 27 Jun 2011, 21:20

Tessa78 wrote:On image two (about the spelling of Bucelli/Bucella)
Last line looks like it reads "Luigi Bucelli, sposo" - But I think it actually reads "Luigi Bucella..."
I know it looks like a dot over the last netter...but throughout the document it is spelled with an "a"

T.


i think i'm going to make myself believe that it's an I, because buccelli was the way they would end up spelling the last name :) i do see buccella though throughout the document. maybe it was corrected at the bottom?? were you able to find a month and day that lugi was born on?

on this manifest sheet the last name is spelled with an E at the end. probably spelled by the way it was sounded out. on line 6 and 7 down almost towards the bottom is a giuseppa buccelle and margherita marcigliano.

http://postimage.org/image/137gwlt38/

of course i can't even confirm if they are even relatives of mine, because i don't know for sure that they had any children in italy, and it doesn't say where they were going. :( i was told that margherita's family was from caserta, but when i wrote to the town of caserta there were no records for this woman. the last name marcigliano pops up the most in caggiano. luigi had a brother frank or probably francesco who was living in pertosa. that's only a few minutes from caggiano. in 1905 this guy francesco was going to hillsville pa. that's where my great grandfather was living at the time. at least i think it says Hillsvill, PA.

http://postimage.org/image/13iq39u2s/

here are the facts that i know from margherita's death certificate

it says she was born on April 29, 1866. you're positive that this 1869 record in italy was a birth record and not a death record? if it is a birth record sounds like there was some mix up with her year of birth. i was told that this was a death record. on the top line this person thought the month was for august. agosto? i wish i had a clearer image to share with you guys. i plan on heading to the family center to order the films for caggiano so that i can see for myself. i'll be bringing my italian dictionary to help me with the translation. do you think that it's even possible that there was another lugi who was also 25 marrying another margherita marcigliano around the same exact year? makes me wonder if i even found the right people. :( thanks for the help btw :)

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Tessa78
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Re: Poor image quality...Need some help with translation.

Postby Tessa78 » 27 Jun 2011, 22:24

it says she was born on April 29, 1866. you're positive that this 1869 record in italy was a birth record and not a death record? Yes, a birth record. Many times a child would die very young and the next child born to the family would be given the same name. This may be the second Margherita born to this couple.
if it is a birth record sounds like there was some mix up with her year of birth. i was told that this was a death record. on the top line this person thought the month was for august. agosto? Yes, it looks like that, but the month is repeated later and it is clearly April... i wish i had a clearer image to share with you guys. i plan on heading to the family center to order the films for caggiano so that i can see for myself. i'll be bringing my italian dictionary to help me with the translation. do you think that it's even possible that there was another lugi who was also 25 marrying another margherita marcigliano around the same exact year? Because of the naming traditions in Italy, you may have actually had MANY Luigi Buccelli/as - can become very confusing. You must verify that it is the correct person by other indicators, including the names of parents. makes me wonder if i even found the right people. :( thanks for the help btw :)


It will take time. It is exciting to find the documents - BUT - you must be patient as you make the case for this to be the correct person... :-D

BTW - US death certificates cannot be depended upon for accuracy. Many times the person providing the information does not know the facts (such as accurate birthdate)
I would rely on the actual birth record from Italy for dates AND for the spelling of the names. :-)

T.

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Tessa78
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Re: Poor image quality...Need some help with translation.

Postby Tessa78 » 27 Jun 2011, 22:30

of course i can't even confirm if they are even relatives of mine, because i don't know for sure that they had any children in italy, and it doesn't say where they were going. :( i was told that margherita's family was from caserta, but when i wrote to the town of caserta there were no records for this woman. the last name marcigliano pops up the most in caggiano. luigi had a brother frank or probably francesco who was living in pertosa. that's only a few minutes from caggiano. in 1905 this guy francesco was going to hillsville pa. that's where my great grandfather was living at the time. at least i think it says Hillsvill, PA.

http://postimage.org/image/13iq39u2s/


On the first manifest you posted -
What year is this manifest?
Margherita Marcigliano, 22 was going to NY (the ditto marks from lines above)
Child - though designated as female - looks to have the first name GiuseppE...look at the finish of the letter.

As to the manifest with Francesco Buccella -
He was from Pertosa, and going to brother Luigi in Hillsville PA - AND had been in US before - 1903
Might want to look for this manifest as well...

T.

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Re: Poor image quality...Need some help with translation.

Postby Tessa78 » 27 Jun 2011, 22:36

i think i'm going to make myself believe that it's an I, because buccelli was the way they would end up spelling the last name :) i do see buccella though throughout the document. maybe it was corrected at the bottom?? were you able to find a month and day that lugi was born on?


The publication of banns for marriage does not give a day and month of birth, only the age of the spouses... The actual information would be included in the allegatti (attachments) to the marriage record itself. You may be able to find them in the flims at your nearest LDS Family History Center.

T.

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Re: Poor image quality...Need some help with translation.

Postby rancelli » 28 Jun 2011, 00:08

the margherita ellis record is from 1892.

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Re: Poor image quality...Need some help with translation.

Postby Tessa78 » 28 Jun 2011, 04:30

The Margherita's age is about right - born around 1870...

She would have traveled under her maiden name (even if married) as was the custom for Italian women.
Child could be Giuseppe...
i was told that margherita's family was from caserta, but when i wrote to the town of caserta there were no records for this woman. the last name marcigliano pops up the most in caggiano.


As for her place of birth - Caserta is both a city and a province, so saying that Margherita is from Caserta may not actually identify her town/city of birth.

T.


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