translation and question

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bkworm10
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translation and question

Postby bkworm10 » 31 Jul 2011, 17:28

Below is the death record of what I believe to be my 6G grandfather. In the processetti from Accettura, I found the death record of my 5G grandfather, Prospero DiMilta. In the record, I learned he was born in Viggiano and that his parents were unknown. Prospero was the father of the groom. Then at the end of the processetti, this record was included. Is this the death record of Prospero's father (grandfather of the groom)? If so, why would the death record of Prospero say his parents were unknown and then they include the death record of Prospero's father. In any event, could someone please translate this record and give me your opinion on whether this is Prospero's father (i.e. grandfather of the groom). Thanks!

http://postimage.org/image/1zvpbr5dw/

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Lucap
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Re: translation and question

Postby Lucap » 31 Jul 2011, 22:31

Can you post the death record of your 5G grandfather? Maybe you didn't read it in correctly or it isn't the death record of your 5GGfather but that of an homonym.
Anyhow, what you say about the records enclosed in the processetti is right: generally the processetti includes the death record of the groom's father (if already dead) or of the groom's grandfather if the father is still alive.

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Re: translation and question

Postby bkworm10 » 31 Jul 2011, 23:17

Thanks Lucap! It's possible I interpreted the record incorrectly.

Below I have included 3 records from the processetti. The first is the solemn promise that has the groom listed and (surprise!) the father Prospero is not dead (unless it's a mistake). The second image lists the contents of the processetti file. The third image is what I believe to be Prospero DiMilta's death record, with parents unknown. Of course in the initial post, is what I believe to be Prospero's father's death record. This really had me confused - I would love anyone's thoughts on this. thanks! Annette

http://postimage.org/image/2hso2bpg/
http://postimage.org/image/2hvz50p0/
http://postimage.org/image/2iftl6mc/

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Tessa78
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Re: translation and question

Postby Tessa78 » 01 Aug 2011, 19:45

Haven't looked at all the images yet, BUT the first image which you state...
The first is the solemn promise that has the groom listed and (surprise!) the father Prospero is not dead (unless it's a mistake).

Actually DOES show Prospero as deceased. You can see "morto" after "domiliciata" -
Mother is also deceased - see same notation "morta"

ALSO deceased are the parents of the bride, Nicola and Teresa.


T.

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Re: translation and question

Postby bkworm10 » 01 Aug 2011, 20:06

You are right! I saw contadina listed as his profession and typically that is where they list morta (at least on the processetti I have been looking at lately) and I never even noticed the morta after domiliciata.

Thanks for pointing that out!

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Re: translation and question

Postby bkworm10 » 01 Aug 2011, 20:12

Also, do you mind translating the first record as well (in my first post). I believe he is my 6G grandfather and that whoever gave the info on Prospero's death, probably just did not know his parents names at the time. But, they must have searched and found out, when they got the processetti forms together.

I can't make out the first name of the deceased. It looks like it begins with a P (Paolantonio?) but I'm not sure. It looks like his mother was Rosalia Durante. It lists the widow, but I can't be sure that is Prospero's mother, right? It could be a second marriage.

Thanks!

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Re: translation and question

Postby Tessa78 » 01 Aug 2011, 20:23

The person writing it states that at Parish of Apostles SS Peter and Paul,in Viggiano, in Book 92, #63 he found the following annotation:
dated 16 September 1783
Paolantonio(?) di M???? (not seeing Milta), age 63, son of deceased Giuseppe and of Caterina Durante; widow of Rosalia Pisano/Pisaro, died in the house he occupied at Contrada del Maschito.

I really don't see anything here that would connect this person to Prospero :-(

T.

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Re: translation and question

Postby bkworm10 » 01 Aug 2011, 20:59

I don't understand why this record would be included. Prospero was born in Viggiano and the rest of the records are from Accettura. I see di Milita, which I think is close to di Milta. I also have (second image I believe) the contents of the processetti. Paolantonio I believe was one of the last documents included in the processetti and beside Prospero, the only document mentioning Viggiano (which is a new town for my ancestors).

Thanks!

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Re: translation and question

Postby Tessa78 » 01 Aug 2011, 21:03

I agree, it was included for a reason, and there is some information that matches :-)

However, you can't make a real "connection" here YET. Need to know the name of Prospero's mother (or father), or have some other "link" that is conclusive. :-)

Have you not found Prospero's birth record?

T.

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Re: translation and question

Postby bkworm10 » 01 Aug 2011, 21:33

No, I just found out Prospero's information yesterday on my 4G grandmother's brother's processetti. It was not included on my 4G grandmother's processetti, because Prospero was not dead yet (she got remarried the year before). I also do not have Viggiano records - I just found out that town yesterday as well. I only have access to Accettura microfilm/records at the moment. I probably wont be able to get Prospero's birth record anyway - since civil records start around 1810 and he was born before that and he never remarried, since his wife died just a couple of months after him. I have another record that is confusing in this processetti as well. Here it is:

http://postimage.org/image/mditsa78/

It's the last record, before the record that includes the 3 witnesses.

The bride's name is Maria Divona, not Anna. I have no idea what this record is and why it's included. Although the groom is older (36), so is it possible it's his first wife? Maria Divona is 22, I think. Usually I can make sense out of these processetti, but this one is puzzling to say the least.

I don't want to jump to conclusions either and have not added this to my ancestry chart - I want to make sure before I add anything. Thanks again!

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Re: translation and question

Postby Tessa78 » 02 Aug 2011, 01:56

This looks like it might be a certificate from the church in Accetura of the death of Maria's grandfather. (though it does look like it refers to the bride as Anna Divona)

T.

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Re: translation and question

Postby bkworm10 » 02 Aug 2011, 02:08

I have seen many documents like this before. It doesn't seem to mention a date of death or in this case, a name of the grandfather (or does it - if so, I can't figure it out).

On the second page of the processetti, it does say that it includes a death record of the brides grandfather, so I guess this must be it.

Thanks!

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Re: translation and question

Postby Lucap » 03 Aug 2011, 13:01

I hope you can understand italian (I have not time, in this moment to write in englis, sorry).
Paolantonio Di Milita dovrebbe essere il nonno di Pasquale e, quindi, il padre di Prospero. Se tu guardi questo documento: http://postimage.org/image/2hvz50p0/ vedrai che al punto 4 dice che all'interno del processetto c'è allegato l'atto di morte del padre dello sposo (Prospero, morto nel 1841, il 25 di febbraio a 70 anni circa) e al punto 5 l'atto di morte dell'avo (sicuramente Paolantonio, morto nel 1783, il 16 di settembre a 63 anni). IN questo modo tu hai anche il nome del padre di Paolantonio e bisnonno di Pasquale: Giuseppe. E sali ancora di una generazione :wink:
Secondo me non ci sono errori.
Luca

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Re: translation and question

Postby bkworm10 » 03 Aug 2011, 13:36

Hi Luca,
Thanks so much for your thoughts on this! I don't understand Italian yet (I'm learning), but google translator worked just fine for me. I think what you are saying is that Paolantonio DiMilta is the father of Prospero and from Paolantonio's death record, I also get his parents: Giuseppe and Caterina Durante. You are basing your thoughts on line 5 of the image I included, which lists the contents of the processetti.

Thanks again! Annette

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Re: translation and question

Postby Lucap » 03 Aug 2011, 14:52

That's right :wink:

Moreover, you said:
bkworm10 wrote:I believe he is my 6G grandfather and that whoever gave the info on Prospero's death, probably just did not know his parents names at the time. But, they must have searched and found out, when they got the processetti forms together.

I think it's what really happened.
L.


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