1852 Atto della solenne promesso

[lcafarel]

I need help reading a couple sections on this second page of an 1852 marriage record.

In #9 in the list of allegati, what is the word I can't fully read near the end in this phrase, and what does it mean? I can't figure out the first part of the word and am not sure of the meaning, though it seems to refer to the dissolution of the first marriage. The phrase is "dello ___glimento del primo matrimonio."

Also, what is the transcription and meaning of the last part of the sentence that begins, "La sposa non avendo prodotto l'atti di morte del di lui avo paterno . . ."?

Many thanks.

Lesley

[erudita74]

# 9 reads as follows:

Nell'atto di morte di Domenico C.. primo marito della (the word sposa should be next and is missing-probably was in the crease of the book from which the record was taken) da cui si rileva il decorso di dieci mesi dello scioglimento del primo matrimonio

I think what this means is that, from the death record of the bride's first spouse, it was determined that it's been 10 months since her first marriage dissolved. I've never seen it worded this way, but there was no divorce at that time, so only the death of one of the spouses could have resulted in the dissolution of a marriage.

The last part reads:

La sposa non avendo prodotto l'atto di morte del di lei avo paterno, ha con giuramento dichiarato, unitamente ai (questi?-could be the missing word)testimoni intervenuti al presente atto ed ignorare il (possibly the word luogo belongs here, as I see the lu) della morte, e dell'ultimo domicilio di quello

The bride had not produced the death act of her grandfather. She swore, united with the witnesses who had intervened in the present act, that she was ignorant of the place of his death and of his last place of residence.

[lcafarel]

Thanks so much! Your interpretation of the first section matches what I had thought.

The second sentence is interesting. The bride was born in Ferrandina in 1807 and her father in Laurenzana about 1760. It's likely that she never even knew her grandfather. Her father's 1835 death record states "genitori ignoti," even though one of the witnesses was one of her older half-brothers who was born in Laurenzana.

[erudita74]

Thanks so much! Your interpretation of the first section matches what I had thought.

The second sentence is interesting. The bride was born in Ferrandina in 1807 and her father in Laurenzana about 1760. It's likely that she never even knew her grandfather. Her father's 1835 death record states "genitori ignoti," even though one of the witnesses was one of her older half-brothers who was born in Laurenzana.

You're very welcome. I've seen a lot of older records where one or both of the spouses had not known their grandfathers, didn't know any information about them, and couldn't produce their death records.

[lcafarel]

One more question: The baptismal (parish) document for the bride mentions an "Archipresbytero." How should this be understood--head priest? There's a reference to someone with the same surname (possibly the same person) in a civil death record from a few years later where the term used is "sacerdote."

Is there significance in the difference between these two terms, and if so, what? If this is the same person, would this signify a change in rank, or is it more likely a difference between church and civil terminology?

[erudita74]

One more question: The baptismal (parish) document for the bride mentions an "Archipresbytero." How should this be understood--head priest? There's a reference to someone with the same surname (possibly the same person) in a civil death record from a few years later where the term used is "sacerdote."

Is there significance in the difference between these two terms, and if so, what? If this is the same person, would this signify a change in rank, or is it more likely a difference between church and civil terminology?

The info at the following website might help with the explanation-

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbitero

[lcafarel]

Thanks!

[erudita74]

Happy to help.

[lcafarel]

Here's a web entry that speaks more directly to the term "archipresbytero":

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arciprete

As I suspected, it signifies rank and role in the church.

[erudita74]

Thanks for posting the additional link.

[rfiorille]

This is an old post but it did help me in understanding the context of "ignorare il luogo della morte e quel dell ultimo domicilio..." in the first act here:

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 6.jpg.html

However, in this record, instead of the grandfather, it's the father who's place of death and domicile is unknown to the spouse.

I did look at the pubblicazioni for this marriage as well and the bride's father is listed as deceased, but it says "domiciliati nella comune di Campobasso".

There appears to be some indication why the bride in Lesley's act wouldn't know her grandfather (she was born in a different town than him), but in this act, the only reason I can think of why this bride wouldn't know where her father died and was living would be because she moved from Campobasso to San Giovanni at some point and maybe didn't keep contact?

Why is all this genealogy stuff so cryptic?!

[rfiorille]

And cryptic becomes clear one year later in 1812 when the bride's brother gets married:

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 6.jpg.html

"il di lui padre Luca espadriato de moltissimi anni"