Need help with latin records

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Need help with latin records

Postby crossl » 22 Oct 2012, 01:24

Hello, could these latin church records be translated for me. A couple of months ago I got excellent help with another translation from LUCA so hopefully he can help with these 2 records.


http://postimage.org/image/6tp2nuypr/93cb75a3/

http://postimage.org/image/ajk435axh/

Thank you,
Franco
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Re: Need help with latin records

Postby erudita74 » 22 Oct 2012, 02:16

Nobilis de Genua marriage to Livia de Magistro-

where did you get the year of 1647 from? The date I read on this record is July 25, 1748.

There were three banns of marriage-all on Sundays: the first on June 7th, the second on June 14th, and the last one on the 21st
Witnesses look like Petro di Lello (surname?) and Ambrosio de Magistro

The other record is a baptism record dated April 27th, year? (I think the year was given for the first child on the page and was not repeated in the other records), for an infant born to Salvatore de Genua (son of deceased Nobilis) and Julia, the daughter of deceased Batxxx Pettamxxx (the x's indicate there are missing letters in each of the names which I can't decipher).Infant was given the name: Honufrius (I believe the name Humphrey would be the English equivalent of this Latin first name). Godmother's name: Claudia(?) Ciazza (?)
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Re: Need help with latin records

Postby crossl » 22 Oct 2012, 17:31

Thank you very much for your help. The date I was given was 1647, any chance the date is 1648 and not 1748. That record came out of a church book dated "marriages for 1634 - 1707." I enclose a photo of the book cover.

http://postimage.org/image/isnwkpgaj/

Thanks
Franco
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Re: Need help with latin records

Postby erudita74 » 22 Oct 2012, 17:56

crossl wrote:Thank you very much for your help. The date I was given was 1647, any chance the date is 1648 and not 1748. That record came out of a church book dated "marriages for 1634 - 1707." I enclose a photo of the book cover.

http://postimage.org/image/isnwkpgaj/

Thanks
Franco


Then the year is 1648 and not 1647. I see the third letter is an x now. It says "Anno Domini millesimo sexcentismo quadragesimo octavo"-In the year of the Lord 1648.
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Re: Need help with latin records

Postby crossl » 24 Oct 2012, 15:20

Thank you Eurida74, it is then 1648. The other baptism record is 1664. Would anyone be able to translate both of those records fully in Italian and English?

Thanks
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Re: Need help with latin records

Postby erudita74 » 24 Oct 2012, 15:54

You're welcome, Franco. The only person who could possibly translate the Latin records completely into Italian would probably be Luca, but I haven't seen him posting here as of late. My knowledge of Latin is too limited to do that for you. Sorry.
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Re: Need help with latin records

Postby crossl » 24 Oct 2012, 22:28

Thank you Erudita for your help. Yes, Luca has translated for me before so hopefully he'll see this post in the near future.

Warm regards,
Franco
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Re: Need help with latin records

Postby paola52 » 25 Oct 2012, 11:00

The real problem is not the language, but the handwriting and the fact that so many letters are missing. With the real document a Wood's lamp could work miracles. Is there a better image, or can someone enhance it ?(I am not good at photoshop or the like)Also an image of the records before and after those that you need translated could provide some clues by comparison, especially for recurrent words or for capital letters, that in XVII century handwriting are always very ornate For example the first letter of the surname of the marriage witness could be a L but also a T. Do you know if the the name of the place is "Casale"? If so we would have a good exemple of a capital C
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Re: Need help with latin records

Postby crossl » 25 Oct 2012, 12:30

Hello Paola, yes the records are hard to read. My son is going to try and enhance the records using photoshop. When he does I'll repost them. The name of the town is Casacalenda. I did a bit of enhancement using Picasa but I also am not good at it. Unfortunately I don't have any other records around those dates.

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Re: Need help with latin records

Postby erudita74 » 25 Oct 2012, 13:05

erudita74 wrote:Nobilis de Genua marriage to Livia de Magistro-

where did you get the year of 1647 from? The date I read on this record is July 25, 1748.

There were three banns of marriage-all on Sundays: the first on June 7th, the second on June 14th, and the last one on the 21st
Witnesses look like Petro di Lello (surname?) and Ambrosio de Magistro

The other record is a baptism record dated April 27th, year? (I think the year was given for the first child on the page and was not repeated in the other records), for an infant born to Salvatore de Genua (son of deceased Nobilis) and Julia, the daughter of deceased Batxxx Pettamxxx (the x's indicate there are missing letters in each of the names which I can't decipher).Infant was given the name: Honufrius (I believe the name Humphrey would be the English equivalent of this Latin first name). Godmother's name: Claudia(?) Ciazza (?)


Possible name for Julia's deceased father: Batiste Pettamutta.
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Re: Need help with latin records

Postby Lucap » 27 Oct 2012, 00:10

Very hard to read!

Anno Domini 1665 die vero 27 mensis Aprilis. R(everendus) D(ominus) ... Sacerdos
Paroch(ia)lis Casac(alen)dae, in ea de lic(enti)a R(everen)di D(omini) Pardi(?)... Aeconomus(???)
eiusdem Parrochialis baptizavit infantem natum ex Julia filia q(uonda)m Ba(ptis)tae
Pettanitto(?), et ex Salvatore filius q(uonda)m Nobilis De Genua ...(?)
... cui nomen imposuit Honophrius. Mat(rin)a fuit Claudia(?)
Cicogna, et in fidem

L'anno del Signore 1665, il giorno 27 del mese di Aprile. Il Reverendo Don ... sacerdote della Parrocchiale di Casacalenda, in essa su licenza del Reverendo Don Pardo ... economo della stessa Parrocchiale, battezzò un bambino nato da Giulia figlia del fu Battista Pettanitto(?) e da Salvatore figlio del fu Nobile De Genua ... ... cui impose il nome di Onofrio. Madrina fu Claudia(?) Cicogna. E nella fede (delle quali cose)

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Re: Need help with latin records

Postby Lucap » 27 Oct 2012, 00:43

Only transcription, for the moment:

Anno Domini millesimo sexcentesimi quadragesimi octavo, die vero vigesima quinta Julii
Denuntiationibus praemissis tribus continuis diebus festivis, quarum prima die septima
mensis junii die dominica, secunda die decima quarta eiusdem et a die(?) dominica
tertia vero, et ultima die vigesima prima eiusdem pariter die dominica, et extitisse
canonicum impedimentum affinitatis, super quo fuit ...
apostolica dispensationis ... ex dispensatione Illustrissimo et Reverendissimo Domino
Episcopo Laurinensis presentata apparet, Ego Dominus Ioseph Di Lallo(?)
Archipresbiter Ecclesiae Parochialis Casacalendae, Nobilem Di Genua et
Liviam de magistro Nicolao interrogavi eorumque mutuo con-
sensu habito de licentia Illustrissimi et reverendissimi Domini sollemniter per verba
de presenti matrimonio iunxi, praesentibus pro testibus ...
Petro di Lallo et Ambrosio de magistro Nicolao et in missae
celebratione non fuerunt benedicti in ambo ... ...
nuptias, et in fidem
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Re: Need help with latin records

Postby Lucap » 27 Oct 2012, 12:07

Qualche piccolo aggiustamento, poi dopo arriva anche la traduzione.

Anno Domini millesimo sexcentesimo quadragesimo octavo, die vero vigesima quinta Julii
Denuntiationibus praemissis tribus continuis diebus festivis, quarum prima die septima
mensis junii die dominica, secunda die decima quarta eiusdem et a die dominica
tertia vero, et ultima die vigesima prima eiusdem pariter die dominica, habita est et extitisse
canonicum impedimentum affinitatis, super quo fuit ad fede(?)
apostolica dispensatione, ut ex dispensatione Illustrissimo et Reverendissimo Domino
Episcopo Laurinensis presentata apparet, Ego Dominus Ioseph Di Lallo
Archipresbiter Ecclesiae Parochialis loci Casacalendae, Nobilem Di Genua et
Liviam de magistro Nicolao interrogavi eorumque mutuo con-
sensu habito de licentia Illustrissimi et reverendissimi Domini sollemniter per verba
de presenti matrimonio ei iunxi, praesentibus pro testibus ...
Petro di Lallo et Ambrosio de magistro Nicolao et in missae
celebratione non fuerunt benedicti in ambo(?) ... ...
nuptias, et in fidem
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Re: Need help with latin records

Postby Lucap » 27 Oct 2012, 22:19

Ci dovremmo essere:

Anno Domini millesimo sexcentesimo quadragesimo octavo, die vero vigesima quinta Julii
Denuntiationibus praemissis tribus continuis diebus festivis, quarum prima die septima
mensis junii die dominica, secunda die decima quarta eiusdem et a die dominica
tertia vero, et ultima die vigesima prima eiusdem pariter die dominica, habita est et extitisse
canonicum impedimentum affinitatis, super quo fuit ad fede(?)
apostolica dispensatio, ut ex dispensatione Illustrissimi et Reverendissimi Domino
Episcopo Laurinensis presentata apparet, Ego Dominus Ioseph Di Lallo
Archipresbiter Ecclesiae Parochialis loci Casacalendae, Nobilem Di Genua et
Liviam de magistro Nicolao interrogavi eorumque mutuo con-
sensu habito de licentia Illustrissimi et reverendissimi Domini sollemniter per verba
de presenti matrimonio ei iunxi, praesentibus pro testibus ...
Petro di Lallo et Ambrosio de magistro Nicolao et in missae
celebratione non fuerunt benedicti in(?) ambo(?) ... ...
nuptias, et in fidem


L'anno del Signore milleseicentoquarantotto (1648), il giorno venticinque (25) di luglio.
Premesse le pubblicazioni in tre giorni festivi continuativi, la prima delle quali si ebbe il 7 del mese di giugno, giorno di Domenica, la seconda il 14 dello stesso (mese), giorno di Domenica, la terza ed ultima il 21 dello stesso (mese) parimenti giorno di Domenica, e esistente un canonico impedimento per affinità, riguardo al quale ci fu a garanzia(?) una dispensa apostolica, come risulta documentato dalla dispensa dell'Illustrissimo e Reverendissimo Vescovo di Laurino, io Don Giuseppe Di Lallo, Arciprete della Chiesa Parrocchiale di Casacalenda, interrogai Nobile Di Genua et Livia di mastro Nicola e avuto il loro reciproco consenso, su licenza delI'llustrissimo e Reverendissimo Signore (…?), solennemente, per verba de presenti, li unii in matrimonio, presenti come testimoni Pietro di Lallo e Ambrogio di mastro Nicola e non (!) furono benedetti nella celebrazione della messa (… … …) e nella fede delle quali cose...

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