Death record help

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Death record help

Postby bvbellomo » 19 Jun 2013, 14:43

Attached is the death record of Luiggia Giglio, who I thought was my 5th great grandmother. Does this look like her husband, Vincenzo Lima, is still alive?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3322562/records/Lima%20Vincenzo/Giglio%20Luiggia%20Death.pdf

He looks dead on her daughter's allegeti:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3322562/records/LiPani%20Vincenzo/2035716%20Vinc%20LiPani%20marriage%20%201.pdf

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3322562/records/LiPani%20Vincenzo/2035716%20Vinc%20LiPani%20marriage%20%20%202.pdf

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3322562/records/LiPani%20Vincenzo/2035716%20Vinc%20LiPani%20%20marriage%20%203.pdf

Are these 2 different people? Can someone translate the titles of the documents attached in the allegeti? Or at least the title of document 7? Is Vincenzo Lima's father Giuseppe Lima?

Luiggia Giglio's mother has a surname I've never seen before. It was transcribed as Metruzza. To me, it looks like it could be 'Mastragga'. I have not seen anything close to any spelling I can come up with in Polizzi or anywhere else even.
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Re: Death record help

Postby erudita74 » 19 Jun 2013, 21:52

bvbellomo wrote:Attached is the death record of Luiggia Giglio, who I thought was my 5th great grandmother. Does this look like her husband, Vincenzo Lima, is still alive?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3322562/records/Lima%20Vincenzo/Giglio%20Luiggia%20Death.pdf

He looks dead on her daughter's allegeti:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3322562/records/LiPani%20Vincenzo/2035716%20Vinc%20LiPani%20marriage%20%201.pdf

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3322562/records/LiPani%20Vincenzo/2035716%20Vinc%20LiPani%20marriage%20%20%202.pdf

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3322562/records/LiPani%20Vincenzo/2035716%20Vinc%20LiPani%20%20marriage%20%203.pdf

Are these 2 different people? Can someone translate the titles of the documents attached in the allegeti? Or at least the title of document 7? Is Vincenzo Lima's father Giuseppe Lima?

Luiggia Giglio's mother has a surname I've never seen before. It was transcribed as Metruzza. To me, it looks like it could be 'Mastragga'. I have not seen anything close to any spelling I can come up with in Polizzi or anywhere else even.




The act of Solemn Promise which you posted has three pages to it. I don't see any document #7. What you have is a list of the supporting documents which the spouses provided for their marriage. They presented their birth acts (#1 and #2), #3 a copy of the act of notification which had resulted in there being no impediments to their marriage. #6 on page three of the document is the act of death of Vincenzo Lima, the father of the bride; #7 was the act of death of Giuseppe Lima, who was the bride's grandfather. So, yes, Giuseppe Lima was Vincenzo Lima's father, and Vincenzo was deceased at the time of his daughter's marriage.

As to the surname on Luiggia's death record, to me it looks like it has two z's in it, like Mastruzza or Mestruzza, but I don't see these surnames as being from the Palermo area or even from Sicily. With an i at the end, they are found in the northern part of Italy or in the Rome area.

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Re: Death record help

Postby bvbellomo » 20 Jun 2013, 14:53

erudita74 wrote:The act of Solemn Promise which you posted has three pages to it. I don't see any document #7. What you have is a list of the supporting documents which the spouses provided for their marriage.


These records are not online yet and I won't have an opportunity to view microfilm for many months, so I can only get them through Family Search's photoduplication service. They can't (or won't) send the actual supporting documents, I am lucky they sent the list, as sometimes I only get the first page.

erudita74 wrote:#6 on page three of the document is the act of death of Vincenzo Lima, the father of the bride; #7 was the act of death of Giuseppe Lima, who was the bride's grandfather. So, yes, Giuseppe Lima was Vincenzo Lima's father, and Vincenzo was deceased at the time of his daughter's marriage.


My ancestor, Gandolfa Lima, daughter of Luiggia Giglio and Vincenzo Lima, was married in 1824. If her father was dead in 1824, he could not be alive in 1840, and I have the wrong death certificate for his wife. It is unlikely 2 different couples with the names "Luiggia Giglio" and "Vincenzo Giglio" were alive at the same time in the same village, but it is possible. Giglio is not a common surname in Polizzi, there are only 2 other records with "Giglio" that aren't Incogniti Genitori" born 1835 or later.

erudita74 wrote:As to the surname on Luiggia's death record, to me it looks like it has two z's in it, like Mastruzza or Mestruzza, but I don't see these surnames as being from the Palermo area or even from Sicily. With an i at the end, they are found in the northern part of Italy or in the Rome area.


Did you mean with an a at the end?
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Re: Death record help

Postby erudita74 » 20 Jun 2013, 15:26

Yesterday I was looking at Mastruzzi and Mestruzzi which is found in northern Italy. However, I just noticed that there is currently Mastruzzo in Palermo, Catania, and Enna in Sicily, so perhaps this is the correct spelling or, at some point, the surname did end with the letter "a," which does not appear to be a current spelling of the surname.

I don't know what to tell you about Luiggia's death record. She is called the wife, and not widow of Vincenzo in this record, which leads one to think that the Vincenzo Lima in this record was still alive. Also we see the word defunto for deceased after her parents' names, but not after his. Another thing is that I don't see the word "fu" in front of his name, but it is difficult to decipher what appears before Vincenzo's name in the record. It could be an abbreviation for the word Maestro which means that he was a master of whatever occupation in which he engaged.

I don't know how big this town was or how common her name would have been at that time in the town. It may still be her death record though. She was 55 at the time of her daughter's marriage in 1824 and 67 in the 1840 death record. I would have expected her to be abt 71 in 1840, so the age given at death is close to what it should be, assuming her age of 55 was accurate in the daughter's marriage record. So it could still be the same person, as ages in marriage records are not always accurate, and an age in a death record is the least accurate. Other than this, I really don't know what to tell you. Without having Sicilian civil records prior to 1820, you might only find answers in earlier church records, if you could somehow get your hands on those.

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