Latin Translation Please

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Latin Translation Please

Postby oemorg » 10 Jul 2013, 00:27

I believe these are copies of Gregorio Candreva's death record from the processetti of 2 of his grandchildren. I think he died 23 Oct 1784, but want to be sure. I didn't see an age at death or his parents' names, but I'm hoping you do. He was married to Santa Tavolaro. Please help. Thanks, Greg
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9672domenicocandreva&carmelamarcheseproc1830pg06.jpg
Gregorio Candreva Death Record 2
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9672agostinocaputo&mariacandrevaproc1825pg04.jpg
Gregorio Candreva Death Record 1
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Re: Latin Translation Please

Postby erudita74 » 10 Jul 2013, 01:25

oemorg wrote:I believe these are copies of Gregorio Candreva's death record from the processetti of 2 of his grandchildren. I think he died 23 Oct 1784, but want to be sure. I didn't see an age at death or his parents' names, but I'm hoping you do. He was married to Santa Tavolaro. Please help. Thanks, Greg



Greg
I believe the date was Dec 23, 1784, and that he was about age 50 when he died. I don't see parents' names listed.
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Re: Latin Translation Please

Postby oemorg » 10 Jul 2013, 01:53

Thanks again, Erudita. I realy appreciate it. Getting closer to the 1600's. How exciting. Greg
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Re: Latin Translation Please

Postby Lucap » 11 Jul 2013, 00:33

Anno Domini millesimo septing(entesi)mo octog(esi)mo quarto, die v(er)o vig(esi)ma tertia m(ensi)s Xmbris, Vaccaritii. Gregorius Candreva terrae S(ancti) Benedicti Ullano vir Sanctae Tavolaro, aetatis suae annorum quinquaginta circiter occisus colpis scopli, animam suam Deo reddidit in restricta meae jurisdictionis, et quia praeceptus Pascale adimpleverat, ejus corpus sepultum fuit in hac Ab(adia)li Ecc(lesi)a Vaccaritiana sub tit(ul)o Visitationis B(eat)ae M(ari)ae V(irgin)is elapsis statutis horis, et in fidem, Joseph Archiopoli Ab(ba)s et Rector.

L’anno del Signore millesettecentoottantaquattro, il giorno ventitre del mese di Dicembre, in Vaccarizzo. Gregorio Candreva della terra di San Benedetto Ullano, marito di Santa Tavolaro, della sua età di anni cinquanta circa, ucciso da un colpo di pietra, rese la sua anima a Dio nei confini della mia giurisdizione, e poiché i riti della Pasqua si dovevano (ancora) compiere il suo corpo fu sepolto in questa abbaziale Chiesa di Vaccarizzo sotto il titolo della Beata Maria Vergine trascorse le ore (il tempo) stabilite, in fede Giuseppe Archiopoli Abbate e Rettore.
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Re: Latin Translation Please

Postby erudita74 » 11 Jul 2013, 01:14

Thanks to Luca you have a cause of death in this record. He was killed by a blow from a rock.

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Re: Latin Translation Please

Postby Lucap » 11 Jul 2013, 11:21

Le informazioni che si trovano sui registri parrocchiali sono, in genere, così limitate che tralasciarle per limitarsi a riportare solo date, nomi e cognomi è quasi un "delitto". Se poi, come in questo caso, si trovano informazioni aggiuntive che di solito non ci sono, è un vero peccato ignorarle ;)
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Re: Latin Translation Please

Postby erudita74 » 11 Jul 2013, 15:54

Lucap wrote:Le informazioni che si trovano sui registri parrocchiali sono, in genere, così limitate che tralasciarle per limitarsi a riportare solo date, nomi e cognomi è quasi un "delitto". Se poi, come in questo caso, si trovano informazioni aggiuntive che di solito non ci sono, è un vero peccato ignorarle ;)



Luca is right in saying that the information that is found in the parish registers is, in general, usually limited to only dates, names, and surnames and that, when additional information such as a cause of death is given, it would be a crime to ignore such information. So you have been very lucky to have gotten a cause of death in this record.

Currently, I'm researching parish records for my husband's ancestry which go back into the mid 1500s. The information in them is so limited that it is often impossible to connect a particular individual to a particular family. Sometimes a baptism record, for example, only has the name and date of the infant being baptized with no additional information. The name of the godparent may be given, but not the name of the parents. Death records may or may not say that the individual was a son, daughter, wife, or husband, of a particular person, but there is no additional info, other than the date and place of burial. A female's maiden name is not always given in a death record; it may just say that she is the wife of ... and then her husband's first and last name may be given. Some marriage records only give the names of the fathers of the spouses and not the mothers' names. It's very disappointing to have access to records from that far back and not get more specific information from them.
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Re: Latin Translation Please

Postby Lucap » 11 Jul 2013, 18:46

Hai indubbiamente ragione!
La ricerca genealogica è bellissima da portare avanti, dà un sacco di soddisfazioni ma, a seconda di come si intende svolgere e di quanto indietro nel tempo si riesce ad arrivare, può diventare anche estremamente complicata. E a maggior ragione se la ricerca viene svolta stando, fisiciamente, dall'altra parte dell'Oceano!
Negli Archivi di Stato o negli Archivi diocesani ci sono una miriade di documenti conservati e solo una piccolissima parte è stata digitalizzata e ancora di meno è la quantità di documenti messi in rete, e quando si presantano situazioni come quella da te descritta è un'impresa titanica venirne a capo! Certo, si potrebbe estendere la ricerca provando a indagare, ad esempio, nei notarili, ma oltre alla complessità della questione e all'enorme mole di materiale che si deve indagare, c'è l'insormontabile problema che, per quanto ne so, ancora non è stato digitalizzato praticamente niente.
Ma il bello è anche questo: se fosse una cosa facile, probabilmente non ci affascinerebbe ;)
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Re: Latin Translation Please

Postby oemorg » 11 Jul 2013, 22:18

luca,

Grazie molto per la traduzione. Mi chiedo come quella roccia ha colpito la mia 6 ° bisnonno. Incidente? Guerra? Combattere? Non è un modo comune per morire. Mi sento male per lui, ma io sono contento di avere questa storia da raccontare.
Hai ragione per la mancanza di informazioni sui vecchi registri parrocchiali. Ma almeno abbiamo qualcosa. Alcuni paesi non hanno avuto la fortuna di essere conquistata da Napoleone, che ha dettato l'Italia deve tenere registri dello stato civile.
Sono d'accordo, se la ricerca della famiglia fosse facile, io non credo che sarebbe farlo. Sarebbe solo un mucchio di nomi e date. Forse è per questo la mia famiglia non è molto interessato quando parlo con loro di quello che ho trovato. Non hanno avuto il piacere di essere un detective per trovare le informazioni.

Grazie ancora,
Gregorio

(Tradotto da Google. Spero che sia buono.)
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Re: Latin Translation Please

Postby Lucap » 11 Jul 2013, 22:38

Gregorio, don't worry about translation, I can understand also if you write in english ;)

Non so darti una spiegazione circa la causa di morte del tuo avo: io credo che si sia trattato di un incidente e non di un omicidio, altrimenti ho l'impressione che il parroco avrebbe scritto qualcosa di leggermente diverso, ma la mia è solo un'impressione.
Sul fatto, invece, che la ricerca genealogica non interessi i tuoi parenti sei in buonissima compagnia: quasi nessuno di noi riesce ad avere questa soddisfazione!
Buona fortuna nelle tue ricerche ;)
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Re: Latin Translation Please

Postby oemorg » 11 Jul 2013, 23:10

Erudita,

Thanks for the translation of the translation. I DO feel lucky getting the cause of death, especially a blow from a rock. I feel bad about my 6GGF but it's a good story to tell family. There are many possibilities, accident, war, a feud with his neighbor, argument with his wife, who knows. Did he fall on the rock, or was it a rock projectile? On all the death records from Italy I have, I don't recall ever noticing a cause of death. Then again I don't know Italian, just the key words and phrases. Maybe I'll go back and look a little closer at some of them.
I understand your frustration with the lack of information on the really old church records. Even though I have not gone back as far as you there have been times where the writer of the "modern" vital record could have saved me so much time and expense if he just wrote a little neater. Didn't he know I would be reading it hundreds of years later? I would think it's even more frustrating when the info is supposed to be there and isn't because of laziness or incompetence.
I guess all you can do about the lack of information is add the possibilties to your tree and make a note that it's this one OR that one. What else can you do? You don't want to add the wrong people, (I despise those who do that) but you don't want to totally reject people who could be in your line either. Hopefully you are working with uncommon names.

Thanks again,
Greg
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Re: Latin Translation Please

Postby erudita74 » 12 Jul 2013, 11:35

oemorg wrote:Erudita,

Thanks for the translation of the translation. I DO feel lucky getting the cause of death, especially a blow from a rock. I feel bad about my 6GGF but it's a good story to tell family. There are many possibilities, accident, war, a feud with his neighbor, argument with his wife, who knows. Did he fall on the rock, or was it a rock projectile? On all the death records from Italy I have, I don't recall ever noticing a cause of death. Then again I don't know Italian, just the key words and phrases. Maybe I'll go back and look a little closer at some of them.
I understand your frustration with the lack of information on the really old church records. Even though I have not gone back as far as you there have been times where the writer of the "modern" vital record could have saved me so much time and expense if he just wrote a little neater. Didn't he know I would be reading it hundreds of years later? I would think it's even more frustrating when the info is supposed to be there and isn't because of laziness or incompetence.
I guess all you can do about the lack of information is add the possibilties to your tree and make a note that it's this one OR that one. What else can you do? You don't want to add the wrong people, (I despise those who do that) but you don't want to totally reject people who could be in your line either. Hopefully you are working with uncommon names.

Thanks again,
Greg


You're very welcome, Greg. It is kind of fun to think of all possible scenarios related to your ancestor's cause of death. Stories certainly add flavor to family history research, and make for a more interesting read, if you are writing about it for future generations.

I am very careful not to add the wrong people to my family tree, so I keep digging for other records which will give me the highest degree of accuracy. But, as Luca has stated, there is a lot more information in the archives (both civil and diocesan) that has not been digitalized and to which we don't have access. So, we can only strive to do the best with what has been made available to us.

Continued good luck with your research.
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