help with allegati please

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help with allegati please

Postby dmt1955 » 20 Nov 2013, 04:56

http://s8.postimg.org/bnbgka0d1/1868_Al ... 350002.jpg
the letter indicates two communes Villanova del Battista (VdB) and Ariano. Further along when mentioning the bridge & groom, it reads groom was born & living in 'questo commune' and for the bride, 'in the same town.' Is the comune being referred to VdB or Ariano?

http://s22.postimg.org/52uw2qj3l/1868_A ... 350003.jpg
next to last paragraph.....
....ed a causa che lo sposo Luigi Colantuono trovasi in casiere del circondario di ariano per reato commesso in persona della stessa maria sabatelli, a che ora deve impalmare per essere assoluto dal reato ed avere in ???? la liberta.

... and because the groom Luigi caretaker is found in the district of Ariano, for offenses committed in the person of the same Maria Sabatelli, what time should ever be wed to the crime and have in ????? freedom. " WHAT???

the wedding took place in Ariano? correct?

thanks for your help
Donna
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Re: help with allegati please

Postby erudita74 » 20 Nov 2013, 14:32

dmt1955 wrote:http://s8.postimg.org/bnbgka0d1/1868_Allegati_Colantuono_Sobatelli_1350002.jpg
the letter indicates two communes Villanova del Battista (VdB) and Ariano. Further along when mentioning the bridge & groom, it reads groom was born & living in 'questo commune' and for the bride, 'in the same town.' Is the comune being referred to VdB or Ariano?

http://s22.postimg.org/52uw2qj3l/1868_A ... 350003.jpg
next to last paragraph.....
....ed a causa che lo sposo Luigi Colantuono trovasi in casiere del circondario di ariano per reato commesso in persona della stessa maria sabatelli, a che ora deve impalmare per essere assoluto dal reato ed avere in ???? la liberta.

... and because the groom Luigi caretaker is found in the district of Ariano, for offenses committed in the person of the same Maria Sabatelli, what time should ever be wed to the crime and have in ????? freedom. " WHAT???

the wedding took place in Ariano? correct?

thanks for your help
Donna



Hi Donna
My understanding is that both Luigi and Maria were born and living in Villanova di Battista, but that Luigi was found in the area of Ariano and was incarcerated there for a crime he had committed against Maria (I gather he had violated her, to put it simply). The town official from Villanova was asking the official in Ariano to marry them. The word impalmare means to take as a wife a lady, or to recognize her as the promised spouse. The rest of that section for me would translate to "to be independent of the crime and, at the same time, have his freedom."

I think the word you can't decipher in the second paragraph you give above is the word insiemamente. I can't find this word or a specific English translation for it. I keep seeing the word insieme in it though, which means together, which is why I translated it to mean "at the same time."

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Re: help with allegati please

Postby dmt1955 » 20 Nov 2013, 14:56

thanks so much erudita. i wondered if that might be the implication of that paragraph, given google translator.

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Re: help with allegati please

Postby erudita74 » 20 Nov 2013, 15:08

A native Italian speaker may tell me otherwise, but personally I think we have the meaning of the record correct. I have never seen such a record in all my years of doing this kind of research. You certainly know how to find some unusual and very challenging records, Donna.

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Re: help with allegati please

Postby PippoM » 21 Nov 2013, 10:09

You got the meaning correct! Luigi was in jail in Ariano because he had violated Maria; it can be understood by the fact that he had to marry her to be acquitted of his crime and get free again. It was called a "matrimonio riparatore" ("shotgun wedding" according to Google Translator).
As to the word "insiememente" (in your document "insiemamente"), it is an old-fashioned way to say "insieme" (in this case "at the same time").
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Re: help with allegati please

Postby erudita74 » 21 Nov 2013, 19:33

PippoM wrote:You got the meaning correct! Luigi was in jail in Ariano because he had violated Maria; it can be understood by the fact that he had to marry her to be acquitted of his crime and get free again. It was called a "matrimonio riparatore" ("shotgun wedding" according to Google Translator).
As to the word "insiememente" (in your document "insiemamente"), it is an old-fashioned way to say "insieme" (in this case "at the same time").



Thanks, Pippo. I'm glad Donna and I were on the right track and that I understood the document correctly. Also appreciate knowing about the old-fashioned word for insieme.
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Re: help with allegati please

Postby dmt1955 » 23 Nov 2013, 18:22

Thanks so much for the clarification, Pippo. So, would this be typical of the time that if the male married the female, he could be acquitted? In this situation, Maria was not quite 16 so would her guardian have to agree to this arrangement, also?

thanks,
donna
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Re: help with allegati please

Postby PippoM » 25 Nov 2013, 15:04

Yes, he could. And I think this remained until last century. Also, her "tutore" had to give his consent. This is written at bottom of first page, and top of the second: "al matrimonio sudetto procede la sposa con il consenso del tutore Antonio Venuti come dall'atto del Consiglio di Tutela fatto presso la Pretura del Mandamento di Flkumeri del giorno 16 luglio 1868"
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Re: help with allegati please

Postby dmt1955 » 26 Nov 2013, 03:43

i am most appreciative,
thanks, donna
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Researching: Purcaro, Raimo, Rizzo, Scaglione, Troisi, Masucci
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