Help translating record for Stella Oleander

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samueljorlando
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Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby samueljorlando » 09 Jan 2014, 02:36

So as far as I know, this record is for my great grandfather's sister. I clearly see my gg-grandmother's name, Carmela Rivoltorto, in it as the mother.

First, this information contradicts what I've been told/found out. On my gg-grandfather's social security application, it lists his father as Gaetano Rivoltorto. However, the record states Stella's last name as Oleander.
Also, I am having trouble reading the word written after Rivoltorto. As far as I can make out, she was 21 when she gave birth. I also can't make out Stella's name.
Does it mention her father's name at all in there? I saw her name followed by di Oleander. Does it list anything else? His name, age, occupation? Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks again.

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adelfio
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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby adelfio » 09 Jan 2014, 02:44

Are you going to post the record

Marty
Researching Trabia, Palermo surnames Adelfio, Bondi, Butera, Scardino,Rinella, Scardamaglia

Marty

samueljorlando
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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby samueljorlando » 09 Jan 2014, 03:05

adelfio wrote:Are you going to post the record

Marty


My apologies, I forgot to post the link. Got distracted while making the post.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... :743849773

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Tessa78
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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby Tessa78 » 09 Jan 2014, 04:17

samueljorlando wrote:So as far as I know, this record is for my great grandfather's sister. I clearly see my gg-grandmother's name, Carmela Rivoltorto, in it as the mother.

First, this information contradicts what I've been told/found out. On my gg-grandfather's social security application, it lists his father as Gaetano Rivoltorto. However, the record states Stella's last name as Oleander.
Also, I am having trouble reading the word written after Rivoltorto. As far as I can make out, she was 21 when she gave birth. I also can't make out Stella's name.
Does it mention her father's name at all in there? I saw her name followed by di Oleander. Does it list anything else? His name, age, occupation? Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks again.


The parents of the child were not identified on the birth record...
Carmela Rivoltorto, of unknown parents ("d'ignoti"), age 22, presented the child to the official for the recording of the birth. It is stated that the child was born to "a woman who does not consent to be named." The child was given the name Stella, and surname Oleander by the official. Birth on 22 April 1902.
HOWEVER,
the notation at the left side states that Giuseppe Giannelli, of Triggiano, in a notarized act on 14 April 1905, recognized Stella Oleander born to Carmela Rivoltorto, as his natural daughter.

So Stella's father was Giuseppe Giannelli, and her mother was Carmela Rivoltorto.

Maybe this is a different Carmela Rivoltor?

T.

samueljorlando
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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby samueljorlando » 09 Jan 2014, 04:24

Thank you so much! This answers and creates so many questions. I had heard stories that they were unmarried and the father was some a priest or some kind of official.

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Tessa78
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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby Tessa78 » 09 Jan 2014, 04:26

samueljorlando wrote:Thank you so much! This answers and creates so many questions. I had heard stories that they were unmarried and the father was some a priest or some kind of official.


Have you found your GGGFs birth record?

Can you provide his name and approx. year of birth?

You might find the act of recognition in Parte II of the births for 1905.

EDIT TO ADD:

Here is a birth record for Giacomo Gaetano Rivoltorto
#283
Born 15 September 1905
Presented by his mother, Carmela Rivoltorto, age 23
Born to her from a union with a single man, not related, who does not wish to be recognized...
This child has been given the mother's surname because she identified the child as hers.
There is no notation of a recognition by a father.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... :551302433

T.

samueljorlando
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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby samueljorlando » 09 Jan 2014, 04:42

I have not found it yet, despite looking. His name was Ernesto Rivoltorto, born 18 Jan 1901 in Triggiano.

Carmela had 4 children, Ernesto (18 Jan 1901), Stella (22 Apr 1902), Giacomo (15 Sep 1905), and one other child which I do not know the name of. I think the child was a male. I was told he fought and died in WWI. From what I know and heard, all of them were born in Triggiano.

On Ernest's social security application it lists his father as Gaetano Rivoltorto.

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Tessa78
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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby Tessa78 » 09 Jan 2014, 05:09

samueljorlando wrote:I have not found it yet, despite looking. His name was Ernesto Rivoltorto, born 18 Jan 1901 in Triggiano.

Carmela had 4 children, Ernesto (18 Jan 1901), Stella (22 Apr 1902), Giacomo (15 Sep 1905), and one other child which I do not know the name of. I think the child was a male. I was told he fought and died in WWI. From what I know and heard, all of them were born in Triggiano.

On Ernest's social security application it lists his father as Gaetano Rivoltorto.


I believe this may be your GGGF - born Ernesto FOMEZ
Born on 18 January 1901 in Triggiano to "a woman who does not wish to be identified"
Carmela Rivoltorto made the presentation to the official. She was age 20.
The official gave the child the name Ernesto and the surname (ed il cognome) Fomez.
FYI- the official usually gave the child a "fantasy" name, one that was not found in the town.
LEFT SIDE NOTATION
Like the notation on Stella's birth record, Giuseppe Giannelli, on 14 April 1905, recognized Ernesto Fomez as his son with Carmela Rivoltorto.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... :n85748077

If you can locate the act of Recognition from 14 April 1905, you may learn the name of the other child :-)


T.

samueljorlando
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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby samueljorlando » 09 Jan 2014, 05:40

Tessa,

Thank you so much once again. You're amazing. Do you know where I would look for the act of Recognition?

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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby liviomoreno » 09 Jan 2014, 10:05

Tessa78 wrote:
the notation at the left side states that Giuseppe Giannelli, of Triggiano, in a notarized act on 14 April 1905, recognized Stella Oleander born to Carmela Rivoltorto, as his natural daughter.

So Stella's father was Giuseppe Giannelli, and her mother was Carmela Rivoltorto.

Maybe this is a different Carmela Rivoltor?

T.


Tessa78 wrote:LEFT SIDE NOTATION
Like the notation on Stella's birth record, Giuseppe Giannelli, on 14 April 1905, recognized Ernesto Fomez as his son with Carmela Rivoltorto.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... :n85748077


Giuseppe Giannelli was the Notary in front of which, on April 14 1905, Carmela recognized that Stella Oleander and Ernesto Fomez where her own children. Giuseppe Giannelli is NOT their father is still unknown. :(

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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby liviomoreno » 09 Jan 2014, 10:24

Tessa78 wrote:
I believe this may be your GGGF - born Ernesto FOMEZ
Born on 18 January 1901 in Triggiano to "a woman who does not wish to be identified"
Carmela Rivoltorto made the presentation to the official. She was age 20.
The official gave the child the name Ernesto and the surname (ed il cognome) Fomez.
FYI- the official usually gave the child a "fantasy" name, one that was not found in the town.
LEFT SIDE NOTATION
Like the notation on Stella's birth record, Giuseppe Giannelli, on 14 April 1905, recognized Ernesto Fomez as his son with Carmela Rivoltorto.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... :n85748077

If you can locate the act of Recognition from 14 April 1905, you may learn the name of the other child :-)


T.


The side notation also states that Carmela was the daughter of unknown parents. This is the text of the notation:
Per atto del Notaio Giannelli Giuseppe di Triggiano 14 aprile 1905, è stato riconosciuto per figlio naturale da Rivotorto Carmela di ignoti

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Tessa78
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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby Tessa78 » 09 Jan 2014, 19:16

OOPS!!! :oops: :oops: :oops:

Thank you Livio for the second set of eyes... It was much too late for me to be using mine :-)

Also... I was searching for this recognition act, but unsuccessfully. Where do you think it might be found?

T.

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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby erudita74 » 09 Jan 2014, 23:44

Tessa78 wrote:OOPS!!! :oops: :oops: :oops:

Thank you Livio for the second set of eyes... It was much too late for me to be using mine :-)

Also... I was searching for this recognition act, but unsuccessfully. Where do you think it might be found?

T.



T-
I have always found acts of recognition in part II of the birth acts for year of recognition, but in 1905 births, the first act in Part II is an act of recognition, but not the one needed.

Erudita

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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby samueljorlando » 10 Jan 2014, 04:06

Here is the act of Recognition:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... n779031270

Here is the "missing" child, Alfredo Unger aka Rivotorto:
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Any chance of having help deciphering the two documents? I know Alfredo was born in 1899 on the 11, but the month is hard for me to decipher.
I am also unable to decipher what Alberto's middle name might be.
Also, what is the word that follows Carmela Rivotorto near the top of the record?

I would like to thank everyone who has helped me with this and also Wilberta Illig DiVincenzo's help for finding the birth record for Alfredo and the act of recognition. I had also posted the link to this post on Italian Genealogy's facebook page. I am simply amazed by the helpfulness and dedication of the members of this site. Thank you all, again.

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Tessa78
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Re: Help translating record for Stella Oleander

Postby Tessa78 » 10 Jan 2014, 05:10

samueljorlando wrote:Here is the act of Recognition:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... n779031270

Here is the "missing" child, Alfredo Unger aka Rivotorto:
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Any chance of having help deciphering the two documents? I know Alfredo was born in 1899 on the 11, but the month is hard for me to decipher.
I am also unable to decipher what Alberto's middle name might be.
Also, what is the word that follows Carmela Rivotorto near the top of the record?

I would like to thank everyone who has helped me with this and also Wilberta Illig DiVincenzo's help for finding the birth record for Alfredo and the act of recognition. I had also posted the link to this post on Italian Genealogy's facebook page. I am simply amazed by the helpfulness and dedication of the members of this site. Thank you all, again.


Act of Recognition
#2
Transcription of recognition of natural children requested by Carmela Rivotorto

Year 1907, day 27, April at 11 AM at the town office.
Before me… official of vital records of the Comune of Triggiano, appeared Carmela Rivotorto, of parents unknown, age 27, single, woman of the house, born in Bari and residing in this town, to present to me a copy of the act of recognition of her natural children, received on 14 April 1905 from Notary Giuseppe Giannelli of this town, released by Nicola Signorile, coadjutor of Notary Giannelli, on day 25, in which Carmela Rivotorto recognizes her natural born children, Alfredo Unger, Ernesto Fomez and Stella Oleander, written in the registers of birth of this town, the first - day 11 December 1899, under number 430, the second - day 21 January 1901 under number 46 and the third - day 25 April 1902 under number 154, …
They would then be named Rivotorto… [then it names them again]…
Witnesses to the transcription of the act were Giuseppe Giannelli, son of Vincenzo, age 25, middle-class; and Pietro Spadaro, age 34, barkeeper, both residents of this town.
The witnesses signed below with the official, but not the requester as he was illiterate.

Birth act of Alfredo Unger
Dated 11 December 1899 at noon at the town office... born at 8 AM on that same day.
Presented by Carmela Rivotorto, age 18, daughter of unknown parents
No parents identified for the child.
Notation in left margin of Act of Recognition
The line with Alfredo's name is "nome di Alfredo e il cognome di Unger" - "the name of Alfredo and the surname of Unger"
After Carmela's name is "d'ignoti" - "of unknown"

T.


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