Adolfo Dazzi

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Adolfo Dazzi

Postby m11oct » 17 Mar 2014, 17:23

Hi All,

I have located birth and death records in 1896 for my 2x-great-grandfather's brother.

If I've interpreted the records correctly, he was born on 24 Nov 1896 and died aged 5 days on 29 Nov 1896.

I'm interested to know if the records give an indication as to why he was born in Lucca, rather than Diecimo. The family came from Diecimo; all the older siblings were born in Diecimo; they don't seem to have been living in Lucca as he died only 5 days later back in Diecimo, and other records show his mother died in Diecimo in the 1910s. There is no other connection to Lucca so it seems strange they would travel to Lucca for the birth. Is there anything on the document that would help to explain this?

Birth record in Lucca: 1727:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... ,349818801

Death record in Diecimo: 123:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... ,350072901

Thank you in advance for the help. I really appreciate it.

Regards,
Michael
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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby dmt1955 » 18 Mar 2014, 02:40

Michael,
It is difficult for me to decipher all the handwriting on the birth record. but, after Giovanni's name., i wonder if the next words are "dall ospedale di..." which would indicate a hospital.

i do believe the last words are "insieme ????? entrambo Diecimo" indicating that they (parents) both are from Diecimo.

however, i could be TOTALLY mistaken. hopefully others with more expertise than I will have thoughts on this.

sorry i cannot be more sure.
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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby m11oct » 18 Mar 2014, 03:06

Giuseppe, the father, was a foundling from the Pisa Hospital in 1857 so this is where that mention comes from. I know Giuseppe had been living in Diecimo since at least 1878, not sure why he went from Pisa to Diecimo.
But the fact Adolfo born in Lucca was very strange.
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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 18 Mar 2014, 04:21

dmt1955 wrote:Michael,
It is difficult for me to decipher all the handwriting on the birth record. but, after Giovanni's name., i wonder if the next words are "dall ospedale di..." which would indicate a hospital.

i do believe the last words are "insieme ????? entrambo Diecimo" indicating that they (parents) both are from Diecimo.

however, i could be TOTALLY mistaken. hopefully others with more expertise than I will have thoughts on this.

sorry i cannot be more sure.
donna


Interesting Donna, because I had looked at this earlier and wondered the same thing re the hospital. I googled Via Galli Tassi, Lucca, and my understanding from what I read was that there had actually in fact been a hospital in that street and if I remember rightly it had been demolished a few years before this birth event so I then discarded the thought. Like you I am also struggling to read the handwriting. Great catch Donna. :)

Michael, hopefully someone will be able to fill in the missing gaps here.

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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby erudita74 » 18 Mar 2014, 04:48

I am reading-

da legittimo matrimonio dei Giovanni Dazzi dello Spedale di Pisa con Picchi Libania (spelling of wife's name ???) fu Pietro detti coniugi insieme conviventi domiciliato Diecimo

from the legitimate marriage of Giovanni Dazzi of the Hospital of Pisa with Picchi Libania?, daughter of deceased Pietro, aforementioned spouses living together in Diecimo

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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 18 Mar 2014, 06:06

erudita74 wrote:I am reading-

da legittimo matrimonio dei Giovanni Dazzi dello Spedale di Pisa con Picchi Libania (spelling of wife's name ???) fu Pietro detti coniugi insieme conviventi domiciliato Diecimo

from the legitimate marriage of Giovanni Dazzi of the Hospital of Pisa with Picchi Libania?, daughter of deceased Pietro, aforementioned spouses living together in Diecimo

Erudita


Okay, I see where you are now on the record.

I am looking at the supplementary portion before the signatures at the bottom and it seems to say "Spedale di Lucca".

I kind of get the gist - but I may have it wrong - that the child was possibly not well etc - I see the word "salute" but am not sure of the word before this. (My parents use to say phonetically "sono mala di salute" or something like that - probably dialect?) There are some other words there that I recognise too so will be interested to know whether my theory of what it might be saying is correct.

Great to have you back Erudita - have missed you. :)

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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby erudita74 » 18 Mar 2014, 06:53

Hi Angela
I can decipher that the informant has dispensed with presenting to me (the official) the baby above because of health and has advised me of the veracity of the stated birth. I can't decipher the next sentence though.
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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 18 Mar 2014, 09:30

erudita74 wrote:Hi Angela
I can decipher that the informant has dispensed with presenting to me (the official) the baby above because of health and has advised me of the veracity of the stated birth. I can't decipher the next sentence though.
Erudita


Thank you Erudita. Shame the words are so hard to decipher. Interesting that the child was born on 24 November and not presented until 28 November by someone from Lucca (not the father?) - four days later - and then child dies two days after that. A bit of a mystery without the full story?

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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby erudita74 » 18 Mar 2014, 13:12

AngelaGrace56 wrote:
erudita74 wrote:Hi Angela
I can decipher that the informant has dispensed with presenting to me (the official) the baby above because of health and has advised me of the veracity of the stated birth. I can't decipher the next sentence though.
Erudita


Thank you Erudita. Shame the words are so hard to decipher. Interesting that the child was born on 24 November and not presented until 28 November by someone from Lucca (not the father?) - four days later - and then child dies two days after that. A bit of a mystery without the full story?

Angela


I think the next part refers to the clerk-the informant-who by his appearance as an official had been appointed by the superior of the hospital of Lucca-

then I'm stuck on deciphering the rest, but it's possible that it states that he (the informant) was the one who was permitted in the maternity room (ward)

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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 18 Mar 2014, 20:41

m11oct wrote:Giovanni, the father, was a foundling from the Pisa Hospital in 1857 so this is where that mention comes from. I know Giovanni had been living in Diecimo since at least 1878, not sure why he went from Pisa to Diecimo.
But the fact Adolfo born in Lucca was very strange.


The death record is dated 30 November 1896 and it says he died “oggi” (today) so his date of death is 30 November 1896. The father's name is Giovanni which I am sure you intended to type (probably a typo :) )

I hope you have found the translations given here helpful.
I have found this thread very interesting :D
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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 18 Mar 2014, 20:43

erudita74 wrote:
AngelaGrace56 wrote:
erudita74 wrote:Hi Angela
I can decipher that the informant has dispensed with presenting to me (the official) the baby above because of health and has advised me of the veracity of the stated birth. I can't decipher the next sentence though.
Erudita


Thank you Erudita. Shame the words are so hard to decipher. Interesting that the child was born on 24 November and not presented until 28 November by someone from Lucca (not the father?) - four days later - and then child dies two days after that. A bit of a mystery without the full story?

Angela


I think the next part refers to the clerk-the informant-who by his appearance as an official had been appointed by the superior of the hospital of Lucca-

then I'm stuck on deciphering the rest, but it's possible that it states that he (the informant) was the one who was permitted in the maternity room (ward)

Erudita


Very well done, thank you Erudita. :D I'm glad I wasn't having "optical illusions". :wink: I'll keep thinking about this.

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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby erudita74 » 18 Mar 2014, 20:48

Just to clarify, Angela, the child was NOT presented at the town hall due to its health issue. The appointed employee from the hospital in Lucca is the one who appeared to declare the birth and stated that it was true that the birth had taken place when it did, but he did not have the ill baby with him when he appeared before the town official. The infant remained at the hospital.
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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 18 Mar 2014, 20:54

erudita74 wrote:Just to clarify, Angela, the child was NOT presented at the town hall due to its health issue. The appointed employee from the hospital in Lucca is the one who appeared to declare the birth and stated that it was true that the birth had taken place when it did, but he did not have the ill baby with him when he appeared before the town official. The infant remained at the hospital.
Erudita


Yes, thank you Erudita. I did in fact understand this. In my original post I had intended to type "the event was presented" . Great you have clarified this though.

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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby m11oct » 19 Mar 2014, 11:55

Thank you to everyone for all the information.

Angela: Yes, thanks it was a typo.
His full name was Giovanni Doroteo Dazi (with one z) and the mother was Maria Elena Libania Picchi.
I have both of their birth records and marriage records and also the birth records of three older brothers of Adolfo.
The father is sometimes listed as just Giovanni, just Doroteo and sometimes Giovanni Doroteo, on various records. The mother is nearly always listed as Libania.
This is the only record where the name is spelled Dazzi with two zs rather than Dazi with one z.
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Re: Adolfo Dazzi

Postby erudita74 » 19 Mar 2014, 13:27

Hi Michael
The handwriting in the birth record was most difficult, but I think we have the info correct. Happy to have helped.
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