Need help translatin lista di leva Citta Sant Angelo Pescara

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Need help translatin lista di leva Citta Sant Angelo Pescara

Postby GeneTree » 03 Aug 2014, 06:36

Di Liso Guiseppe 1899 Lista Di Leva002.pdf
2 page PDF
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In 1998 I received 2 pages of Lista di Leva for Citta di Sant' Angelo, Pescara regarding Giuseppe Di Liso, born April 10, 1879. He is my wife's paternal grandfather who died 17 Sep 1966 in Pittsburgh, PA. The date of the Leva appears to be June 30, 1879. I need help finishing the translation. My initial translation was helped by the book, Italian Genealogical Records by Trafford R. Cole. His example of a registro di leva best fits my copy from Pescara.

My copy is missing the headings and I had the most trouble translating the military decision column. I gave a printed copy to John Colletta who works out of Washington, DC but was at the Southern California Jamboree seminar in Burbank. He spent about an hour on the copy and provided possible headings and some important translations. He was not able to give me a complete translation but his translation helped.

This is my first post to the Forum and I have not yet uploaded the 2 page Lista di Leva. I scanned my copy and saved it to PDF. I can offer much of the translation but I didn't want to make such a long post. I will be glad to do so if it is requested.

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Re: Need help translatin lista di leva Citta Sant Angelo Pes

Postby Tessa78 » 03 Aug 2014, 20:56

Were you able to read that the parents' names were Camillo Di Liso and Chiara Comignani?
He was a peasant farmer of chestnut hair and eyes. He had a scar above the right eyelid.

I believe that the notation dated 28 January(?) 1918 declares him to be unwilling or reluctant to report for military duty.
Above that states something about the thumb of his left hand (looks like "lack of" - mancanza)... possibly making him unfit for military service?

T.

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Re: Need help translatin lista di leva Citta Sant Angelo Pes

Postby GeneTree » 05 Aug 2014, 04:56

I thought I better add what I have been able to translate - see below. I am still hoping someone can better help with the final column of the boards decision. I appreciate the help by Tessa78. Any other suggestions?
Thanks,

Registro Di Leva of Guiseppe Di Liso
Transcribed by GeneTree 3 August 2014

No. 266
Suscritta [looks like]
Di Liso Guiseppe [prospective draftee’s name]
Camillo [father's name]
Comignani Chiara [mother's name Chiara = Clara]
Citta S. Angelo [commune of residence]
10 Aprile 1879 [date of birth]
Citta S. Angelo [commune of birth]
??? [father's commune of birth]
??? [mother's commune of birth]
Contadino [farmer or peasant]
Leggere} no [Read = no]
Scrivere} no [write = no]

[Results of military physical examination required at age 18]
Statura metri [1.64 meters tall]
Capelli {colore cu---? [color of hair = chestnut]
{forma L---? [type of hair = smooth or straight]
Occhi cu---? [color of eyes = chestnut]
Colorito rosio? [skin color = ruddy or red]
Dentatura ---? [condition of teeth = good]
Segni particolari [particular scars or birthmarks = scar over the right eyebrow]
Periferia toracica [chest measurement = 81 centimeters]

1326 [don’t know to what this number refers]
Riformato per ??? [Reformed for ??? - military translation suggest "declare unfit" or "reject"?
del lato pollice [the side thumb]
della mano sinestra [of the left hand]
can't read next phrase after sinestra
John Colletta said sinestra was followed by an abbreviated notation, perhaps the citation of an applicable law or regulation

30.6.99 [30 June 1899 - possible start of military service? or date of physical exam?]
28.4.1918 [28 April 1918 - not sure to what this date refers because it is 19 years after the first date of 30.3.99]
Dichiarato [declared] Renitente [delinquent]



Transcribed with the help of Italian Genealogical Records by Trafford R. Cole, also John Phillip Colletta, PhD in Washington, D.C. and online translators Word Reference.com, Babylon, and others.

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Re: Need help translatin lista di leva Citta Sant Angelo Pes

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 06 Aug 2014, 02:50

GeneTree wrote:I thought I better add what I have been able to translate - see below. I am still hoping someone can better help with the final column of the boards decision. I appreciate the help by Tessa78. Any other suggestions?
Thanks,

Registro Di Leva of Guiseppe Di Liso
Transcribed by GeneTree 3 August 2014

No. 266
Suscritta [looks like]
Di Liso Guiseppe [prospective draftee’s name]
Camillo [father's name]
Comignani Chiara [mother's name Chiara = Clara]
Citta S. Angelo [commune of residence]
10 Aprile 1879 [date of birth]
Citta S. Angelo [commune of birth]
??? [father's commune of birth]not mentioned that I can see
??? [mother's commune of birth]not mentioned that I can see
Contadino [farmer or peasant]
Leggere} no [Read = no]
Scrivere} no [write = no]

The two columns immediately after Giuseppe's date of birth i.e. 10 April 1879 are concerning Giuseppe. I'm certain there is nothing there about his parents, only their names, (in column 3).
The first column (after date of birth column) relates to his place (luogo) of birth and the next column relates to his permanent address (residenza)
1. Comune (town) born and residing: S.Angelo (which you know).
2. Mandamento (the district? Not sure of the meaning of this word. Someone else will know.) born and residing: it looks like sud – south, but I am wondering whether “sud” in this case is an abbreviation for sudetto? (said): so S.Angelo
3. circondario (translates to district) but I think it is actually the province: Pescara


[Results of military physical examination required at age 18]
Statura metri [1.64 meters tall]
Capelli {colore cu---? [color of hair = chestnut] brown
{forma L---? [type of hair = smooth or straight]straight
Occhi cu---? [color of eyes = chestnut]brown
Colorito rosio? [skin color = ruddy or red]My dad had this description also which surprised me. He was brown skinned – olive complexion – very tanned in the summer. It possibly means a red undertone.
Dentatura ---? [condition of teeth = good]sano - healthy
Segni particolari [particular scars or birthmarks = scar over the right eyebrow]
Periferia toracica [chest measurement = 81 centimeters]

1326 [don’t know to what this number refers] I understand it refers to the place/order of when the decision was made – the entry number in the register. (Numero d'ordine delle decisioni del registro sommario)
Riformato per ??? [Reformed for ??? - military translation suggest "declare unfit" or "reject"?
del lato pollice [the side thumb]
della mano sinestra [of the left hand]
can't read next phrase after sinestra
John Colletta said sinestra was followed by an abbreviated notation, perhaps the citation of an applicable law or regulation

30.6.99 [30 June 1899 - possible start of military service? or date of physical exam?]see below***
28.4.1918 [28 April 1918 - not sure to what this date refers because it is 19 years after the first date of 30.3.99]World War 1 ended 1918 but later than this, I think. – POSSIBLY has something to do with that? ?? If you establish that he was "okayed" maybe you should ask for his service record as well.
Dichiarato [declared] Renitente [delinquent]

Transcribed with the help of Italian Genealogical Records by Trafford R. Cole, also John Phillip Colletta, PhD in Washington, D.C. and online translators Word Reference.com, Babylon, and others.


*** This is the heading above this 4th column. It basically refers to assessment/ decision made.
DECISION
di abilita od inabilita al servizio militare;
di ammissione alla surrogazione di fratello
di dichiarazione di renitenza; di rinvio ad altre sedute o ad altra leva - Altre decisioni

Google translated:
DECISIONS
Enables or disables to military service;
Admission to the subrogation of brother (Sometimes a brother took the place of)
declaration of absence without leave; referral to other sessions or other lever - Other decisions

Hope this helps somewhat.

Angela

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Re: Need help translatin lista di leva Citta Sant Angelo Pes

Postby GeneTree » 06 Aug 2014, 04:16

Tessa78 wrote:Were you able to read that the parents' names were Camillo Di Liso and Chiara Comignani?
He was a peasant farmer of chestnut hair and eyes. He had a scar above the right eyelid.

I believe that the notation dated 28 January(?) 1918 declares him to be unwilling or reluctant to report for military duty.
Above that states something about the thumb of his left hand (looks like "lack of" - mancanza)... possibly making him unfit for military service?

T.

I have the marriage certificate from both Citta Sant' Angelo (Civil) and the church at Chiessa di S. Michelle (Latin). So I knew that the father of Giuseppe was Camillo Di Liso and the mother Chiara Comignani. One of the interesting details is that the surname from Citta S.A. was Deliso and the Church was D'Eliso. Most of the USA records I have use D'Eliso. My wife's brothers and myself and our daughter was able to visit the Church at Chiessa di S. Michelle and "talk" to the Father and he led us to the Latin Church record. That's another story.

John Colletto said the color of the hair and eyes were "chestnut" but I couldn't read the correct Italian word for English translation. Would you please supply the Italian word used in the document for "chestnut"? Also, my wife remembered that her grandfather was missing his left thumb. I can't figuere out why the document's date of 1918 would wait so long to declare him unwilling to report to Military duty. Giuseppe left Italy sometime before 1904 to come to America via London and he never went back to Italy except in 1911 to marry his arranged bride in Citta Sant' Angelo and returned that same year to America.

Do you think that Pescara would have more military records of Giuseppe? I sent an email but have not heard anything for over a month. Thank you for your translation help.

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Re: Need help translatin lista di leva Citta Sant Angelo Pes

Postby Tessa78 » 06 Aug 2014, 04:53

Happy to be of help...

The word for chestnut is "castagna" (pronounced ca-sta-nya)

I am not an expert on military records, but from what you had translated, and what I could see...
I believe he was declared unfit in 1899 (possibly after a physical exam)
Since he left Italy for the last time in 1911, it may be that the "delinquency" statement in 1918 was a formality, since he did not report for service?

You could try writing rather than emailing Pescara AND include some type of ID.

T.

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Re: Need help translatin lista di leva Citta Sant Angelo Pes

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 06 Aug 2014, 05:21

Tessa78 wrote:Happy to be of help...

The word for chestnut is "castagna" (pronounced ca-sta-nya)

I am not an expert on military records, but from what you had translated, and what I could see...
I believe he was declared unfit in 1899 (possibly after a physical exam)
Since he left Italy for the last time in 1911, it may be that the "delinquency" statement in 1918 was a formality, since he did not report for service?

You could try writing rather than emailing Pescara AND include some type of ID.

T.


Hi T

I see the word “castani/castano” for both eyes and hair. I'm sure this means brown.

Also found the following military definition for the word Renitente earlier, before my above post, which certainly confirms your interpretation which I hadn't picked up on before: Renitente (Military Definition) can also mean: reluctant, draft dodger, who does not appear to serve as a conscript? So, one who fails to report for military service.

Angela :)

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Re: Need help translatin lista di leva Citta Sant Angelo Pes

Postby Tessa78 » 06 Aug 2014, 17:44

AngelaGrace56 wrote:
Tessa78 wrote:Happy to be of help...

The word for chestnut is "castagna" (pronounced ca-sta-nya)

I am not an expert on military records, but from what you had translated, and what I could see...
I believe he was declared unfit in 1899 (possibly after a physical exam)
Since he left Italy for the last time in 1911, it may be that the "delinquency" statement in 1918 was a formality, since he did not report for service?

You could try writing rather than emailing Pescara AND include some type of ID.

T.


Hi T

I see the word “castani/castano” for both eyes and hair. I'm sure this means brown.

Also found the following military definition for the word Renitente earlier, before my above post, which certainly confirms your interpretation which I hadn't picked up on before: Renitente (Military Definition) can also mean: reluctant, draft dodger, who does not appear to serve as a conscript? So, one who fails to report for military service.

Angela :)


Hi Angela :-)

You are absolutely right that the color word for describing hair is "castano/i" - and it means chestnut... which is a brown.
I was thinking chestnut - and automatically thought castagna (the word for chestnut in Italian)... Too many times working on "autopilot" --- Sorry for the confusion :-)

T.

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Re: Need help translatin lista di leva Citta Sant Angelo Pes

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 06 Aug 2014, 21:37

Tessa78 wrote:
AngelaGrace56 wrote:
Tessa78 wrote:Happy to be of help...

The word for chestnut is "castagna" (pronounced ca-sta-nya)

I am not an expert on military records, but from what you had translated, and what I could see...
I believe he was declared unfit in 1899 (possibly after a physical exam)
Since he left Italy for the last time in 1911, it may be that the "delinquency" statement in 1918 was a formality, since he did not report for service?

You could try writing rather than emailing Pescara AND include some type of ID.

T.


Hi T

I see the word “castani/castano” for both eyes and hair. I'm sure this means brown.

Also found the following military definition for the word Renitente earlier, before my above post, which certainly confirms your interpretation which I hadn't picked up on before: Renitente (Military Definition) can also mean: reluctant, draft dodger, who does not appear to serve as a conscript? So, one who fails to report for military service.

Angela :)


Hi Angela :-)

You are absolutely right that the color word for describing hair is "castano/i" - and it means chestnut... which is a brown.
I was thinking chestnut - and automatically thought castagna (the word for chestnut in Italian)... Too many times working on "autopilot" --- Sorry for the confusion :-)

T.


Hi T

I don't think you have added any confusion at all. It is probably me who has confused the issue :oops: I'm totally disadvantaged on this site – I don't speak American English and I'm still learning to read Italian :roll: In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have posted. To me the word chestnut either means “reddish brown” - usually used as a hair colour, or, much more wholesome, it is something you pick up off the ground, which a tree has dropped, (if you are vertically challenged like me and can't reach high), take home to mum, and roast on a fire – so yummy. (Brings back happy memories :D )

Off for a very long hike today before the weather caves in. Thanks for your wisdom and all your do. Spot you later.

Angela :)

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Re: Need help translatin lista di leva Citta Sant Angelo Pes

Postby GeneTree » 06 Aug 2014, 22:22

Thank you AngelaGrace56 and Tessa78 for your help in translating the lista di leva. You have given me the balance of information I needed to finish translating the leva. In my computer copy I have listed both Angela and Tessa where you have suggested translation and ideas. Very Very helpful people.

The very last thing I am wondering is the word under No. 266 which looks like Suscritto. I could not get a translation for the word but the balance of the word scritto has something to do with writing. Any final suggestions? After I get everything cleaned up in a new translation I intend to offer it to my wife's family as part of her family history. Her cousin is in process of making a website for Giuseppe D'Eliso (also Di Liso and Deliso).

Again thank you both for your help. You made my day. I am not good at reading written Italian and it took me a lot of time just to get what I had translated before I talked with John Colletto and submitting to this Forum.

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Re: Need help translatin lista di leva Citta Sant Angelo Pes

Postby GeneTree » 06 Aug 2014, 22:25

I forgot to add that the possible meaning of District may be military district which may still be Citta S. Angelo. Citta S. Angelo was part of Teramo until 1926 when it was incorporated into Pescara.

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Re: Need help translatin lista di leva Citta Sant Angelo Pes

Postby Tessa78 » 06 Aug 2014, 22:35

I believe it means above-written referring to the #266. :)

T.


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