Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

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Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 22 Aug 2014, 22:03

I'm needing the correct spelling of an abbreviated form of Domenico. My mum always referred to a particular Domenico as Zio Rumenic (phonetically). I've tried googling this to no avail. Has anyone else heard of this variation/abbreviation/nickname, for the name Domenico and could they please help me with the spelling. Thank you.

Angela

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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby PeterTimber » 22 Aug 2014, 22:53

I suspect that your mum tried to emulate Zio Domenick into her English without knowing or considering the spelling of the two words for Uncle Domenick and came out SEEOHROMENICK (phonetic ) for ZIO DOMENICO
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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 23 Aug 2014, 22:37

:) Actually, you "suspect" absolutely incorrectly but thank you for your interesting reply.

I have this particular uncle's birth record and he was definitely Domenico but he was definitely known as something that sounded like Rumenic, not only by my parents, both Italian, both born and bred in Italy, but also by friends in the town I grew up in, who knew this particular uncle. I suspect it may have been a "dialect" variation to the name (just like Ciccio was a nickname of Francesco in our town, in other towns it was Ciccillo). There were a lot of Domenico's in my history and some were also known as "Mimmi". Unfortunately my parents are now deceased as are their "paesani" so I don't have anyone from our town that I can ask except for my Comara living overseas - good excuse for a long distance phonecall.

Angela

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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby erudita74 » 23 Aug 2014, 22:47

Hi Angela

Interesting that you mention Mimmi, as I saw online the other day that, in Calabria, for example, Domenico can be Mimmo or Mico. So, definitely there were regional nicknames for the first name Domenico.

Erudita

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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby PeterTimber » 24 Aug 2014, 03:48

most male first names in Italy usually become "nicknamed" among friends and relatives starting with the mother and siblings
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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 24 Aug 2014, 09:25

erudita74 wrote:Hi Angela

Interesting that you mention Mimmi, as I saw online the other day that, in Calabria, for example, Domenico can be Mimmo or Mico. So, definitely there were regional nicknames for the first name Domenico.

Erudita


Great, thank you for confirming this Erudita. I appreciate it.

Angela

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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 24 Aug 2014, 09:37

PeterTimber wrote:most male first names in Italy usually become "nicknamed" among friends and relatives starting with the mother and siblings


Yes, I did understand this - and it did not stop in Italy either. My dad certainly brought this custom with him when he left Italy, very much to my embarrassment at times (three of my closest friends, each of Italian extraction) were nicknamed by dad.

Angela

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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby PippoM » 27 Aug 2014, 10:08

Angela,
I can tell you that in Neapolitan/Southern dialect, starting "D"'s are often phonetically substituted by an "R" (expecially out of the city of Naples), and final vowels are not pronounced or "shaded/suspended". This does not happen in "literary" dialect, that's why you can find that form of the name by googling it.
For instance "addo'" = "where" can be pronounced "aro'", or "daje" = "you give" can be pronounced "raj". Where was zio Domenico from?
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 27 Aug 2014, 13:04

PippoM wrote:Angela,
I can tell you that in Neapolitan/Southern dialect, starting "D"'s are often phonetically substituted by an "R" (expecially out of the city of Naples), and final vowels are not pronounced or "shaded/suspended". This does not happen in "literary" dialect, that's why you can find that form of the name by googling it.
For instance "addo'" = "where" can be pronounced "aro'", or "daje" = "you give" can be pronounced "raj". Where was zio Domenico from?


Hi Pippo

Thank you. I think I understand what you are saying. For example instead of the word denti (teeth) we said the word that sounded like "rend", slightly rolling the r at the beginning.

Zio Domenico was from Grumento Nova so the dialect spoken there was Saponarese (probably similar to Lucanian dialect?). I would love to have a copy of the Saponarese/Dialect words. It's sad to think that is fading out. Would you know whether such a list might exist somewhere? I have tried "googling" for this but couldn't find.

Angela :)

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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby PeterTimber » 27 Aug 2014, 14:09

There is an Italian dialect dictionary at http://www.dialettando.com which might be interesting to look over for its content. In researching back to 1100AD I came across several documents which I found that were written in the transition from vulgar Latin, laced with greek words which eventually would become full blown dialect. One can see the transition taking place before your eyes in documents in the 1400's since Latin is not a language that can be spoken but only written so that the Latin vulgate that was spoken by the Romans formed the basis for dialects to form into French, Spanish, Italian and 50% Romanian. Peter
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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby Marcello_DAleo » 27 Aug 2014, 14:42

AngelaGrace56 wrote: Zio Domenico was from Grumento Nova so the dialect spoken there was Saponarese (probably similar to Lucanian dialect?). I would love to have a copy of the Saponarese/Dialect words.


"Saponarese" means "from Saponara". Saponara is the ancient name of Grumento Nova. What in the past was called "saponarese", now is called "grumentino". I suggest you to buy the book
"Dialetto grumentino : dizionario etimologico comparato : grumentino-italiano, italiano-grumentino"
Author Vincenzo Falasca
Publisher Enotria, Grumento Nova, year 2013
http://enotrialibri.it.gg/Contatti.htm
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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 28 Aug 2014, 08:00

PeterTimber wrote:There is an Italian dialect dictionary at http://www.dialettando.com which might be interesting to look over for its content. In researching back to 1100AD I came across several documents which I found that were written in the transition from vulgar Latin, laced with greek words which eventually would become full blown dialect. One can see the transition taking place before your eyes in documents in the 1400's since Latin is not a language that can be spoken but only written so that the Latin vulgate that was spoken by the Romans formed the basis for dialects to form into French, Spanish, Italian and 50% Romanian. Peter


Peter, thank you for the link here. It is great. I've given it a try. I typed in the word “denti” and nothing came up for (my) region of Basilicata but the dialect word used in Campania which borders Basilicata is “rient”. I'm not sure how one would actually say this word but I'm guessing it probably sounds very much like the word “rend” which I am remembering as our word for “teeth”. I'm sure mum use to say that she had been to the “rintista” as well which seems to be Sicilian for “dentista”. So obviously there are similiarities amongst the Southern Italian dialects. I suspect the Northern dialects would be completely different though. I can remember when one of my cousins visited many years ago with his friend, every now and again they would break out into their local dialect, and not even my parents understood them. It sounded somewhat Germanic if I remember correctly. I typed in Domenico as well but nothing “close to” Rumenic came up. I will just go with what Pippo has told me here.

It is interesting what you have written here about the evolution/transition to dialects. One of my children has studied both Latin and Ancient Greek and is currently looking at Hebrew in his spare??? time. I am sure he will be very helpful when I go back further in my records. French and Spanish I can cope with, but Latin and Greek are somewhat beyond me.

Angela

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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 28 Aug 2014, 08:06

Marcello_DAleo wrote:
AngelaGrace56 wrote: Zio Domenico was from Grumento Nova so the dialect spoken there was Saponarese (probably similar to Lucanian dialect?). I would love to have a copy of the Saponarese/Dialect words.


"Saponarese" means "from Saponara". Saponara is the ancient name of Grumento Nova. What in the past was called "saponarese", now is called "grumentino". I suggest you to buy the book
"Dialetto grumentino : dizionario etimologico comparato : grumentino-italiano, italiano-grumentino"
Author Vincenzo Falasca
Publisher Enotria, Grumento Nova, year 2013
http://enotrialibri.it.gg/Contatti.htm


Marcello, thank you for your suggestion here. I'll have a closer look at the link later. It might take me a little while to understand the website.

So what I am understanding is that it is a Grumentino-Italian dictionary and it looks like the author is possibly a Grumentino as well, I recognise the name Falasca as being a Grumento Nova name. I wonder if there is anywhere on line that I could preview it? It would certainly be great to have if it is what I assume it is. I'll have a wee think and an explore and might come back to you on this.

Re the name Saponarese. Yes I do realise that a person from Saponara was called “Saponarese” and that a person from Grumento Nova is called “Grumentino”. (We actually never used the name “Grumentino” though. We may be a little archaic!) Both my parents, their syblings, my grandparents, their cousins, aunts etc were born during the period from 1863-1932 when Grumento Nova was known as “Saponara di Grumento”. (I think that I've possibly confused things by saying that my Uncle Domenico was from Grumento Nova.) The town has had a few name changes. So my understanding is that during that 1863-1932 period people born during that time continued to be known as “Saponarese”. Would that be right?

Angela

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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby Marcello_DAleo » 28 Aug 2014, 08:49

AngelaGrace56 wrote:The town has had a few name changes. So my understanding is that during that 1863-1932 period people born during that time continued to be known as “Saponarese”. Would that be right?


Yes.
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Re: Variation of the Name Domenico - Spelling

Postby PippoM » 28 Aug 2014, 11:23

Angela, your example of "rient" is perfect about what I meant.
But it will be clearer if I correct a typo... :oops:

PippoM wrote:Angela,
I can tell you that in Neapolitan/Southern dialect, starting "D"'s are often phonetically substituted by an "R" (expecially out of the city of Naples), and final vowels are not pronounced or "shaded/suspended". This does not happen in "literary" dialect, that's why you can't find that form of the name by googling it.
For instance "addo'" = "where" can be pronounced "aro'", or "daje" = "you give" can be pronounced "raj". Where was zio Domenico from?
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

Certificate requests and genealogical researches in Italy.
Translation of your (old) documents and letters.
Legal assistance in Italy for your Italian citizenship.


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