Cutrone Birth Document

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labiancm
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Cutrone Birth Document

Postby labiancm » 24 Aug 2014, 00:51

Hello,

Over the past week, I've learned the pattern of birth and marriage documents (thanks to you all), but this document below has me stumped. I had previously learned that Guiseppe Cutrone's parents were Vincenzo Cutrone and Maria Frisone. I can see both of them listed in this document, but the names and ages are listed in a strange order that has me wondering who they apply to. It seems that someone other than the parents is "presenting" the children in these documents? If anyone could help translate (and help identify which two people are 36 years old), I would be grateful.

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Thanks

AngelaGrace56
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Re: Cutrone Birth Document

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 24 Aug 2014, 09:21

Hi

In this record it is the midwife (Levatrice) who was reporting the birth of Giuseppe Cutrone. In the record it suggests that the father is absent from the town of Palo so that is possibly why the midwife is reporting the birth. It was not unusual for the midwife to do this in certain circumstances.

Looking at the record, I do not see the mother's surname being Frisone. The mother's surname starts with T. It looks like Tursi. This possibly isn't the correct record, or there may be an error in the record, (or I may be totally wrong). What says you?

Just to add: On the right there is a side note under the baptism details which says on 11 February 1882, No 20 this Giuseppe married a Filomena ? daughter of Giuseppe. Does this fit with what you know of Giuseppe Cutrone?

Angela

erudita74
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Re: Cutrone Birth Document

Postby erudita74 » 24 Aug 2014, 11:53

AngelaGrace56 wrote:Hi

In this record it is the midwife (Levatrice) who was reporting the birth of Giuseppe Cutrone. In the record it suggests that the father is absent from the town of Palo so that is possibly why the midwife is reporting the birth. It was not unusual for the midwife to do this in certain circumstances.

Looking at the record, I do not see the mother's surname being Frisone. The mother's surname starts with T. It looks like Tursi. This possibly isn't the correct record, or there may be an error in the record, (or I may be totally wrong). What says you?

Just to add: On the right there is a side note under the baptism details which says on 11 February 1882, No 20 this Giuseppe married a Filomena ? daughter of Giuseppe. Does this fit with what you know of Giuseppe Cutrone?

Angela



In the marriage notation, Filomena's surname looks like Lacquadro, but the spelling of the surname in Toritto, where the marriage took place, is currently Losquadro, so I believe that is her correct surname. Possibly the spelling has changed over time.

I also agree with Angela that the mother's surname does not look like Frisone in the record. I was working on deciphering it last night, but my internet connection had been out for hours, and it then went out again right after it came back for a short time. Do you have another record where her surname appears?

The birth record is dated on Jan 25, 1853 at 4 P.M.
Maria Sangirardi of the town of Palo, was age 30, and a midwife living in the town. I should note that it was very unusual to have such a young midwife. Most of the time, the midwife was a much older woman. The birth took place on the 24th. Both parents were age 36, but the father was absent, as Angela has already told you, and it was the midwife who made the presentation of the infant whom the officials recognized as the one who had been born to Maria. Giuseppe was baptized in the parish of Palo on the 25th (info in the right column of the record).

Erudita

erudita74
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Re: Cutrone Birth Document

Postby erudita74 » 24 Aug 2014, 12:59

Angela is correct about the mother's surname in this record being Tursi. The surname does start with the letter T and not the letter F. If you look at the document to the left of yours, toward the bottom you can see the word "testimoni" for "witnesses." The initial letter in both words is formed exactly the same way. If you check the index at the end of this group of records, you will see the same letter formation in the surnames under the letter T.
Erudita

labiancm
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Re: Cutrone Birth Document

Postby labiancm » 24 Aug 2014, 18:40

Thank you both for your help! I suspect that whoever wrote down the names in this record got the mother's name wrong, because Frisone is listed in a couple of others. Thank goodness for the marriage notation to Filomena, because I had previously found that marriage record, and it clearly lists Maria Frisone as Giuseppe's mother

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

I then found Vincenzo Cutrone's (the father) marriage record to Maria Frisone here

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 4.jpg.html

Very strange that they would have gotten it so wrong though... what do you think?

erudita74
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Re: Cutrone Birth Document

Postby erudita74 » 24 Aug 2014, 19:22

Frisone is the correct surname of the mother. Both Angela and I missed the correction which is handwritten on the right lower side of page two of the birth record.
Erudita

AngelaGrace56
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Re: Cutrone Birth Document

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 24 Aug 2014, 20:43

erudita74 wrote:Frisone is the correct surname of the mother. Both Angela and I missed the correction which is handwritten on the right lower side of page two of the birth record.
Erudita


Good spotting Erudita. Oh dear, would you believe it, I didn't even turn the page :oops: Live and learn (hopefully).

Angela

AngelaGrace56
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PROCESSETTI/ALLEGATI - PRE MARRIAGE DOCUMENTS

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 24 Aug 2014, 20:56

Hi labiancm

You are welcome for the help :D

I am not sure whether you know about Allegati, also called Processitti. They were basically the supplementary documents required before a marriage could proceed. They contain a lot more information and can take you back even further in your family history. You can read about them here:

http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/l ... ti#p208703 (Scroll to the top)

I noticed that there are Allegati on line pertaining to at least two of your towns (Bitetto (at the Antenati.... site) and San Fele (at Family Search). I'm not sure whether the years available match the timeframe of the marriages you have already located though. If you are interested read through the link I have provided and then if you have any questions come back and someone will help you. (I am out now for the rest of the day.)

Also, if you haven't already seen this, you may be interesting in reading through the following which I found really helpful when I first started looking at Italian Records. It contains (limited) samples of Italian script which I printed out to help. http://www.italiangenealogy.com/italian ... extraction

BTW: I think you are doing really great with both your your script reading and locating records.

Angela

labiancm
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Re: Cutrone Birth Document

Postby labiancm » 24 Aug 2014, 23:22

Thanks Angela - I did not know about the allegati - I will now have to take my new obsession one step further :) Thanks for the kind words as well - with your and Erudita's guidance, I've gotten back as far as finding an ancestor born in 1749 - not too shabby! I will take a look at the script tips as well.

Thanks again - I'll let you know if/when I have more questions!

AngelaGrace56
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Re: Cutrone Birth Document

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 25 Aug 2014, 21:57

labiancm wrote:Thanks Angela - I did not know about the allegati - I will now have to take my new obsession one step further :) Thanks for the kind words as well - with your and Erudita's guidance, I've gotten back as far as finding an ancestor born in 1749 - not too shabby! I will take a look at the script tips as well.

Thanks again - I'll let you know if/when I have more questions!


You are very welcome - glad to be of help.

("Not too shabby!" at all. I would say "simply grand" :wink: .)

Angela :)


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