Help with Occupation

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AngelaGrace56
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Help with Occupation

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 09 Dec 2014, 19:29

I just can't make out what Bernardo Alberti's occupation might be - it's not the clearest. Any ideas anyone? Thank you. Angela
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Caterina Raffaela Alberti Birth Record 1817 Page 1.jpg

erudita74
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Re: Help with Occupation

Postby erudita74 » 09 Dec 2014, 19:39

I read massaria di campo but I believe massaro di campo is correct. He was a type of manager of an estate who supervised the contadini (peasants) in the field.
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Re: Help with Occupation

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 09 Dec 2014, 19:55

erudita74 wrote:I read massaria di campo but I believe massaro di campo is correct. He was a type of manager of an estate who supervised the contadini (peasants) in the field.
Erudita


That was quick. Thank you for the explanation as well. I was about to ask for some clarification on this and have just noticed your addition here. :D
Angela

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Re: Help with Occupation

Postby erudita74 » 09 Dec 2014, 20:21

http://www.lacittadelluomo.it/pagina_sez04_05a.htm

This reference states that the massaro di campo directed the work of the tenant farmers and stable boys.

Erudita

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Re: Help with Occupation

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 09 Dec 2014, 22:44

Thank you Erudita. This is such an interesting link. I've enjoyed browsing through the other 22 topics in this section as well and looking at the pics. I'll definitely have a closer look when I have more time. I don't suppose there is something similar written in English?

Vrazzali is a new one for me – next in ranking after the lords. (I think Vrazzali might be a southern dialect word meaning arm? I had a brief search to see if I could find out more.)
Angela :)

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Re: Help with Occupation

Postby erudita74 » 10 Dec 2014, 14:12

Hadn't seen that link previously. Glad I found it.
Erudita

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Re: Help with Occupation

Postby erudita74 » 10 Dec 2014, 14:15


AngelaGrace56
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Re: Help with Occupation

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 10 Dec 2014, 23:15

erudita74 wrote:Hadn't seen that link previously. Glad I found it.
Erudita

It is a fantastic link. I'm glad you found it too. I'm looking forward to spending time having a closer look at it.

erudita74 wrote:https://books.google.com/books?id=FsUDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA125&dq=Vrazzali&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_0aIVLOYNYWeNvnpgfAM&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Vrazzali&f=false

Vrazzali-bracciali

Erudita


Bracelets! Interesting. I wonder how the Italian "B" often became "V" in the Southern Dialects? Or maybe it happened the other way round? I remember we always called biscotti "viscotti" etc.
(Just thinking here - you don't need to reply to this one, but you can if you have time.)
Thank you again.
Angela :D

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Re: Help with Occupation

Postby erudita74 » 11 Dec 2014, 05:07

Hi Angela,
Unfortunately, I don't know any dialects-only the Italian I learned at the university level.
Erudita

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Re: Help with Occupation

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 11 Dec 2014, 05:21

Much more useful I'm sure :)
Angela

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Re: Help with Occupation

Postby PippoM » 11 Dec 2014, 09:56

Angela,
"bracciale" is now used to mean "bracelet", but at that time it meant "labourer" :-)
However, in the first link Erudita provided, it has a different meaning

Nel mondo contadino, subito dopo i signori, c'erano i vrazzali, che dopo il 1870 avevano potuto acquistare a basso prezzo i beni espropriati della Chiesa. Vrazzali erano d'origine gli industriali che nel corso del '900 costruirono le loro fortune.

"Vrazzali were those who could buy the land expropriated from the Church after 1870. Also the industrialists, who built their fortunes in the '900 were vrazzali in origin"

And yes, in southern dialects sounds "b" and "v" are often interchangeable. My guess is that it derives from Spanish occupation of the area, as in Spanish it happens the same (but I'm not an expert of languages).
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

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Re: Help with Occupation

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 11 Dec 2014, 11:03

PippoM wrote:Angela,
"bracciale" is now used to mean "bracelet", but at that time it meant "labourer" :-)
However, in the first link Erudita provided, it has a different meaning

Nel mondo contadino, subito dopo i signori, c'erano i vrazzali, che dopo il 1870 avevano potuto acquistare a basso prezzo i beni espropriati della Chiesa. Vrazzali erano d'origine gli industriali che nel corso del '900 costruirono le loro fortune.

"Vrazzali were those who could buy the land expropriated from the Church after 1870. Also the industrialists, who built their fortunes in the '900 were vrazzali in origin"

And yes, in southern dialects sounds "b" and "v" are often interchangeable. My guess is that it derives from Spanish occupation of the area, as in Spanish it happens the same (but I'm not an expert of languages).


I think I got a bit muddled on the word "bracciale". I completely forgot that it meant labourer back in the 1800's. Thank you for your contribution here Pippo, it is always valued and appreciated :D
Angela

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Re: Help with Occupation

Postby PippoM » 11 Dec 2014, 11:34

:D
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

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