Please help with translation!!! 1852 copy of birth cert from 1832

Having problems with the Italian language? Do you need help to translate or understand an old family document? There is always someone who can help you!
montce
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: 28 Aug 2015, 22:02

Please help with translation!!! 1852 copy of birth cert from 1832

Postby montce » 28 Aug 2015, 22:17

Giuseppa Cirine? from Ferrazzano, Campobasso, Molise.
Orphan???
You can see the document here:

http://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/dacc1b7963d33548

Thank you

User avatar
Tessa78
Master
Master
Posts: 11580
Joined: 07 Sep 2009, 18:09

Re: Please help with translation!!! 1852 copy of birth cert from 1832

Postby Tessa78 » 29 Aug 2015, 22:30

This script is very hard to read... but here is what I see :-)

Year 1832, 26 September at 4 PM before the official....
Appeared Signora(?) Carastano(?) wife of Giuseppe Baranello, peasant farmer residing here, and she declared that on day 25 of the abovesaid month and at the hour of 10 in the morning she found before her door in Santa Croce, a female child who had been abandoned... without any ?? or note, ... After the official saw the child who was presented by the declarant, and the testimony of no signs on the body, and it appeared the child was about 1 day old, and he gave the child to the declarant to nourish (raise) , he imposed the name Giuseppa and the surname Cirena? Cinera? (hard to say because this is a fantasy name, and will not match common names in the town). However, there is a surname in the town - Cinone.
It then mentions the names of the witnesses to the record...
Then the signature of the official Francesco Gargone?
In the margin it indicates that this copy was for a marriage.

Second part:
This is the notation of the baptism on 26th

The copy is dated 11 December 1852 (for the marriage of Giuseppa)
T.

montce
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: 28 Aug 2015, 22:02

Re: Please help with translation!!! 1852 copy of birth cert from 1832

Postby montce » 29 Aug 2015, 22:37

This is just FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!
and it is much more then I was able to get.
Thank you very much!!!!!!!!!

User avatar
Tessa78
Master
Master
Posts: 11580
Joined: 07 Sep 2009, 18:09

Re: Please help with translation!!! 1852 copy of birth cert from 1832

Postby Tessa78 » 29 Aug 2015, 22:41

Happy to help!! :-D

T.

montce
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: 28 Aug 2015, 22:02

Re: Please help with translation!!! 1852 copy of birth cert from 1832

Postby montce » 29 Aug 2015, 23:08

I do have a question, and you maybe have an answer.
She died in 1907 in Brooklyn, NY. Her death certificate states the names of her parents:Giuseppe Pelitta/Petitta and Rosa Amoroza.
I don't know if those are fake names, because someone was embarassed of the fact that she was abandoned, or those names existed in the town, and they learn this later?
Is there any way I could check this on line, and not go through the microfilms from Ferrezzano?

User avatar
Tessa78
Master
Master
Posts: 11580
Joined: 07 Sep 2009, 18:09

Re: Please help with translation!!! 1852 copy of birth cert from 1832

Postby Tessa78 » 30 Aug 2015, 02:05

SOMETIMES parents who abandon a child will return to claim him/her.
Usually they leave some idenifying sign (ribbon, blanket, card, note, medal) with the child to help with the identification. Giuseppa had no signs with her.

However, if the parents did return to claim and "recognize" the child as their own to give it legitimacy, it was usually recorded in the Parte II of the births, but NOT necessarily in the year the child was born, but in the year he/she was recognized... (sometimes the parents were old and wanted to recognize their child before they died)

It is also possible that the names above are the names of "adoptive" parents -
And... it is also possible that so "save face" parents were invented. The information on death certificates is very unreliable since the person who would know the facts is deceased. Surviving relatives may THINK they know. :-)

Do you have her marriage record? What is the name of her husband?

T.

montce
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: 28 Aug 2015, 22:02

Re: Please help with translation!!! 1852 copy of birth cert from 1832

Postby montce » 30 Aug 2015, 04:39

Hi Tessa,
your arguments make a lot of sense in realities when people lived they lives from birth to death. This is a case when those revelations come 80 years later on totally different continent.
But, let's start from beginning.
Giuseppa Cirine? born 1832, abandoned on the doorsteps of the Baranello family in Santa Croce, near Ferrezzano. In 1852 she married Giovanni Simone Giovannitti (b.1828), son of Giuseppe Giovannitti and Maria Teresa Lembo, grandson of Giovanni Giovannitti from Ferrazzano. Mother of 11 children, only 6 survived.
In 1891 left Italy for a better life to join some of her children( I have no idea how many immigrated to US, at least 4).Died 08 August 1907 in Brooklyn, NY.
Her husband, Giovanni Simone Giovannitti died 3 years later, on June 11, 1910.
He would be the one who provided all the information on death certificate, or one of his children.
Could be that those names are fake, just to save the face, or Giuseppina and Giovanni Simone learned something when they lived in Ferrazzano, which wasn't a short time, but almost 60 years. I see a reason for inventing a fictional relatives in prosperous community, just to make yourself either equal or better.
They were immigrants after all. But if you do that, why not go for the gold and claim the local aristocracy at least.
By the way, what is the meaning of her last name: Cirine, Cirone, Cirona?

Wojtek

Links to additional documents below.

http://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/57d285c006c36716
http://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/5c0f6bd4ecee1bc2
http://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/64774cc3e430500a
http://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/85e341cb746a5e24
http://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/6c5e5c3c9163c9b0

PS. It is a real pleasure to chat with you, and I am really greatefull for your help

User avatar
Tessa78
Master
Master
Posts: 11580
Joined: 07 Sep 2009, 18:09

Re: Please help with translation!!! 1852 copy of birth cert from 1832

Postby Tessa78 » 30 Aug 2015, 05:15

Thank you for the additional information and records. :-D

I noticed in the first record, notification/banns, that Giuseppa is listed as "parents unknown" so a recognition did not take place before 1852.

In the second record she is identified as Mariagiuseppa with no surname. This is very curious.

For the fourth record, Solemn Promise of Marriage, I wonder if the witness at the church marriage (bottom of record), Giuseppe Baranella (age 56), is the same as the Giuseppe Baranella whose wife presented the child at birth. Possibly... since his wife was granted the child to nourish/nurse. MAYBE it was actually her child???? Just speculation. :-)

Also, the second witness at the church celebration looks like Annantonia Rossi(?) Age 42

Sorry... more questions than answers. :lol:

T.


Return to “Italian language, handwriting , script & translations”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 5 guests