Help with notation on back of photograph

Having problems with the Italian language? Do you need help to translate or understand an old family document? There is always someone who can help you!
User avatar
Searcher44
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: 01 Dec 2010, 05:31
Location: Pennsylvania

Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby Searcher44 » 17 Oct 2015, 23:42

Hello...I am looking for some help in reading the comments on the rear of a photograph taken in the 1950s (I think). I have an English/Italian Dictionary, but am unable to locate all but a few words. Of course, the handwriting can be throwing me off, and I am told that it may also be a "dialect." The photo is of a man, woman and young girl (perhaps the grandparents of a girl about 13-15 years old). Thank you for any assistance you can provide. Jerry
Attachments
Rear of Photo #3 Italian Writing.jpg

carubia
Master
Master
Posts: 916
Joined: 25 Jan 2011, 12:13
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby carubia » 20 Oct 2015, 12:02

Well, this is a photo of the daughter of the son of the woman who wrote the message. The girl is 14 years old and taller than her mother. Beyond that I'm having a hard time deciphering it. Is that dialect or just bad spelling? What part of Italy was she from?

User avatar
liviomoreno
Master
Master
Posts: 5428
Joined: 13 Feb 2004, 00:00
Location: Rome, Italy
Contact:

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby liviomoreno » 20 Oct 2015, 12:51

carubia wrote: Is that dialect or just bad spelling?


Both :wink:

User avatar
Searcher44
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: 01 Dec 2010, 05:31
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby Searcher44 » 20 Oct 2015, 19:08

Thank you for responding. The writer of there note is from Castellammare, and since most of the overall family is from Trapani, I'm guessing it is Castellammare del Golfo. While a dialect may be in use here, I think it is more probable that the words are simply misspelled. Would you be able to use phonetic sounding of the words to develop a possible translation? I know I tried all sorts of possibilities using and Italian Dictionary without success, so I thank you for trying. It's a puzzle!! Jerry

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 20 Oct 2015, 21:25

Yes, it seems to be a combination of mis-spelling and some dialect words. I've had a little look and will come back to it later. Basically it is saying:
This is the daughter of my son who is 14 years and is bigger (taller) than her mother. She goes to school and is like ?
This is the easy part. Then it gets tricky:

I think it then mentions a wedding. We … (eposaliz – sposalizio?) and caminovamo (possibly walked/walking) ….
(Possibly the photo was taken at a wedding or possibly they have been invited to a wedding and are saying they are too old now to go? Will look at this again later.)

S/he then mentions that “We have become old” (Siamo fatte vechi (vecchio))
La tua zia Dorotty (Dorotea) (Your aunt Dorothy?) (I think that Aunt Dorothy has sent the card – is that right?)
Good things I pray …... old boys/girls (possibly) and I kiss you and the groom (sposo)

Typing what I see written:
cuesto (questo) e la figlia di mio (male gender?) figlio. This is the daughter of my son.
Tene 14 anni e pui grende (grande) di sua madre. Has 14 years and is more bigger than her mother.
Va alla ai.scuolla e come ? Goes to school and is like ?
Siamo a detto allo eposaliz (sposalizio?) We were told at the wedding? Something to do with a wedding?
E caminovamo (and walked?)
nifeciro le vitette veche?
che siamo fatte vechi We have become old.
la tua zia Dorotty? Your aunt D?
buone cosi (Good things)
I preve I pray
noi? Vechia ragose (raggazo/e)
e mi bacio alle voi sposo (and I kiss you and the groom)

Sorry, it's a little muddly but will have another look later. Meanwhile someone else may be able to work out the words that I have been unable to decipher/interpret. I would love to see the photo if you are happy to share, but no compulsion :)

Angela :D

User avatar
Searcher44
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: 01 Dec 2010, 05:31
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby Searcher44 » 21 Oct 2015, 00:10

I thought the comments on the rear of the photograph were written by my wife's grandmother as she only spoke Italian and some "broken english." But, her name was Francesca, and my wife has no knowledge of an Aunt Dorothy. Yet, the photo was found in an old box of photos and papers belonging to my wife's mother after she passed away, and I guess I just assumed they were written by her mother (wife's grandmother).
Unfortunately, very few relatives remain who would be able to shed some light on the subject, and none of them speak Italian, but I will continue to show those relatives, in the hope somebody will recognize them.

Thank you for your help. I may have more items that need translation, and I hope I can contact you.
Jerry
Attachments
Unknown #3.jpg

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 21 Oct 2015, 02:00

Thank you for sharing the photo. It is a lovely happy photo. It does look like it possibly is at a wedding, definitely a function anyways - do you think so?

Now that I've blown the photo up a little more I see that it was actually taken in America? by "Chicago Camera Craftsmen", Candid Photographers, 3440 W.Montrose Avenue, Keystone 9-2828. This could be a lead for you? Also, have another look through the photos and see if there are any other ones by the same photographer.

I'm always happy to help with translations, time permitting, but through the forum, that way there is always backup from those more experienced than I am, especially our Italian "native speakers" in Italy. Just post anything here and we will take a look. :D

I'll have another look at the back of this photo later.
Angela :D

carubia
Master
Master
Posts: 916
Joined: 25 Jan 2011, 12:13
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby carubia » 21 Oct 2015, 02:36

While there may be a few nonstandard words sprinkled in, it's definitely not written in Sicilian, which is the "dialect" she'd be speaking in Trapani.

User avatar
Searcher44
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: 01 Dec 2010, 05:31
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby Searcher44 » 22 Oct 2015, 00:25

Hi...yes, I agree that the photo looks like it was taken at a wedding, or similar type function, and I had noticed the Photographic Company's name, but I didn't think to check the other photographs to see if the same name was present. Thank you for that suggestion.
There is a street (Montrose Avenue) located in Brooklyn, NY and nearby where the family was living in those days. I'm not sure about the telephone exchange of Keystone, or whether that was used in Brooklyn, but I'll have to look into that a little further. Thank you again for all your help.
Jerry

User avatar
MaryMena
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 66
Joined: 28 Jan 2010, 00:20

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby MaryMena » 22 Oct 2015, 00:32

"ni feceri le ritratte" = they took our photograph. "ritratto" is a Calabrese dialect work for photograph, and I suspect that's similar to Sicilian. The photograph was probably taken by the wedding photographer. It seems to be signed "your aunt Dorotty". Hope this helps.

MaryMena

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 22 Oct 2015, 00:56

MaryMena wrote:"ni feceri le ritratte" = they took our photograph. "ritratto" is a Calabrese dialect work for photograph, and I suspect that's similar to Sicilian. The photograph was probably taken by the wedding photographer. It seems to be signed "your aunt Dorotty". Hope this helps.

MaryMena


Yes! Yes! Yes! That makes sense. I was reading the first letter of the word "ritratte" as a "v" - whoops. I remember mum occasionally would use a word which sounded like "ritratte" when referring to a photo. I can here and understand it so clearly now. Brings back memories - thank you for your insight. Yes, I also think the photograph was probably taken by the wedding photographer and was "probably" signed by Aunt Dorotty.

Angela :D :D

User avatar
PippoM
Master
Master
Posts: 2154
Joined: 25 Aug 2004, 00:00
Location: Roma, Italia
Contact:

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby PippoM » 22 Oct 2015, 11:18

Very good, MaryMena!! :-)
So, "i preve ni vedia" might mean "I pray we meet"...
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

Certificate requests and genealogical researches in Italy.
Translation of your (old) documents and letters.
Legal assistance in Italy for your Italian citizenship.

User avatar
MaryMena
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 66
Joined: 28 Jan 2010, 00:20

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby MaryMena » 23 Oct 2015, 00:38

I think I have another piece of the puzzle. va alla "ai" scuolla = goes to "high" school.

MaryMena

User avatar
Searcher44
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: 01 Dec 2010, 05:31
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby Searcher44 » 23 Oct 2015, 01:19

Wow, what a terrific job everyone is doing. What does the variations in language mean? If she was Sicilian, and speaking with some dialect, wouldn't the words be recognizable (even if misspelled) as Sicilian? Also, if Calabrese, would that be a language spoken by a person from Castellammare del Golfo?
The reason I ask, is that my wife doesn't recognize an "Aunt Dorothy" (or Dorothy), nor does she recognize anybody in the photo. So,perhaps the writer of the note is not her grandmother from Castellammare, but a relative of her grandmother (maybe a brother married to a "Dorothy," or cousin, etc.). That search will have to continue, but I can't tell you how much I appreciate the effort and time all of you have put into this project. So, thank you Angela, Carubia, Mary, and Pippo. You all provide a valuable service!! Jerry

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Help with notation on back of photograph

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 23 Oct 2015, 12:19

You are very welcome for the help. I'm absolutely fascinated by dialects and it has been a fun exercise, and it is nice to do it as a team. BTW I now realise what it is saying after "they took our photo" (ni feceri le ritratte) "see that we have become old" (vede che siamo fatte vechi (as written)).

Re your questions, I'm no expert but because Castellammare del Golfo is in Sicily, I would suggest that someone from Sicily would be more likely to speak Sicilian, than Calabrese.

I think that if something that was written in Sicilian had mispellings, the words probably would be recognisable, but to someone who speaks Sicilian, or is familiar with southern dialects. I don't think that too many people on this forum would speak Sicilian. A lot of the Southern dialects, though they are different from each other, do seem to have similar words. You may be interested in looking at the following. Just type in an Italian word where it says “Parola” and then click on “cerca” and you'll be amazed at just different an Italian word will translate to regional dialect words.
Dialects: http://www.dialettando.com/

Angela :)


Return to “Italian language, handwriting , script & translations”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests