Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Having problems with the Italian language? Do you need help to translate or understand an old family document? There is always someone who can help you!
AstronomyDomine
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: 21 Nov 2015, 10:55

Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby AstronomyDomine » 21 Nov 2015, 11:02

Hi all,

Would really appreciate if someone could translate all the important information on my great grandfather's birth certificate (both sections of top left page of scan), plus what looks like the later addition of details of his marriage to my great grandmother Carmela in Port Said on the far left. Thanks so much!
Attachments
Gaetano Scarfidi birth certificate.jpg

User avatar
adelfio
Master
Master
Posts: 6821
Joined: 27 Oct 2010, 13:47
Location: Chicago

Re: Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby adelfio » 26 Nov 2015, 00:08

Welcome to IG website

Birth of Gaetano Scarfidi
Index#463
1889 Mar 22nd in the town of Messina in a house on via Corrente Boccetta # 50 birth of Gaetano Scarfidi son of Michelangelo Scarfidi age 22 barber and Maria Galiano sidenote says Gaetano Scarfidi married Carmela ????? 5/11/1911 in Porto Said

Marty
Researching Trabia, Palermo surnames Adelfio, Bondi, Butera, Scardino,Rinella, Scardamaglia

Marty

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 26 Nov 2015, 04:38

adelfio wrote:Welcome to IG website

Birth of Gaetano Scarfidi
Index#463
1889 Mar 22nd in the town of Messina in a house on via Corrente Boccetta # 51 birth of Gaetano Scarfidi son of Michelangelo Scarfidi age 22 barber and Maria Galeano? sidenote says Gaetano Scarfidi married Carmela Sella? 5/11/1911 in Porto Said

Marty


I think that Maria's surname is spelled with an "e" ie Galeano.

Carmela's surname is possibly Sella.

Angela

AstronomyDomine
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: 21 Nov 2015, 10:55

Re: Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby AstronomyDomine » 26 Nov 2015, 12:41

Thank you both so much! This forum is amazing, you guys are legends!

I believe my great grandmother's surname was Vella, with the cursive being so hard to read you've done so well! And Galeano is right too.

Can anyone make out what the bottom section (beyond where it mentions the marriage in Port Said) says? It looks like one of the words is muoio, which is to die, isn't it? Very curious.

And does anyone know why they'd later mark a marriage on the birth registration like that, or was that a normal custom at the time?

Many thanks, you've made my day.
-Sarah

Burmesia
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: 17 Nov 2015, 15:37

Re: Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby Burmesia » 26 Nov 2015, 13:44

Maybe.. after Port Said:
.... and transcribed in these registers marriage archbishopric of office at no. 19 Part II B. year 1917 .
The registrar .
Signed " Deodato "
Researching Raimondi, Rajmondi

My English is terrible... Sorry :(

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 26 Nov 2015, 19:49

AstronomyDomine wrote:Thank you both so much! This forum is amazing, you guys are legends!

I believe my great grandmother's surname was Vella, with the cursive being so hard to read you've done so well! And Galeano is right too.

Can anyone make out what the bottom section (beyond where it mentions the marriage in Port Said) says? It looks like one of the words is muoio, which is to die, isn't it? Very curious.

And does anyone know why they'd later mark a marriage on the birth registration like that, or was that a normal custom at the time?

Many thanks, you've made my day. 8) :D
-Sarah


You are very welcome. Just to add to what Burmesia has just said:

What you are reading as “muoio” is “monio” and it is the second half of the word “matrimonio”, which you already know is “marriage”. The first half of the word “matrimonio” starts on the previous line. It's a little deceptive.

Moire – is “to die”
Morte – death
Morto – died

I'm not sure how standard it was for “marriage” and also “death” notations to be applied to birth records, but, yes, it did happen a lot. This practice is of course a blessing for the genealogist, because it gives us more clues. We then know exactly where to find a marriage or death record.

Thanks for confirming the surname "Vella". I had wondered whether it might be that, but thought it looked more like part of an "S" at the start. (I presumed the surname
was Italian, but also wondered whether it might be Arabic? Interesting that your greatgrandparents married in Egypt.)
Angela :)

AstronomyDomine
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: 21 Nov 2015, 10:55

Re: Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby AstronomyDomine » 01 Dec 2015, 11:02

Thanks for clarifying!

This side of my family are all Maltese and Italian in Egypt, no Arabic connection to the best of my knowledge, but it's very possible at least somewhere in the family line laterally given the geography. My grandparents (Gaetano and Carmela's daughter Maria, and her Maltese husband, Piero/Peter Agius - both born in Port Said) and my father/his siblings immigrated from Port Said to Australia in 1949. It's certainly all very interesting. I didn't even know Gaetano and Carmela's names up until about a month ago, and now I know all of this - amazing. I can't find any more historical records or genealogical leads beyond this birth certificate though in the Scarfidi line, so I'm stuck for the moment, but if anyone reading or researching their own genealogy knows anything about Michelangelo and Maria Scarfidi (Galeano), or the Scarfidi family of Messina or Egypt in general, I'm certainly all ears.

Thanks again to those who translated this for me - you're an asset to the online community.

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 02 Dec 2015, 06:50

Happy to help. Thank you for sharing about your family. I always enjoy reading about other people's history. Here is Michelangelo Scafidi and Maria Filomena Galeano's marriage record which takes you back a little further. There are more records on line for Messina at Family Search:

https://familysearch.org/search/collect ... id=1967753 and also the Antenati Site: http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... o/Messina/ and http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... e/Messina/

Marriage Record No 185: Michelangelo Scafidi and Maria Filomena Galeano:

18 June 1885, Messina

Groom:
Michelangelo Scafidi, 18yo (1867), barbiere (barber), born and residing Messina, son of the late Antonino (Scafidi) and the late Imperiale Santa

Bride:
Maria Filomena Galeano, 23yo (1862), sarta (tailor), born and residing Messina, daughter of Gaetano, residing Messina and Giuseppa Costa, residing Messina.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=1967753

Angela :)

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 02 Dec 2015, 20:45

Hi again

Here's the link to the online Vital Records for Messina 1866-1910 which I intended to give you in my previous post:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=1967753

I've had a look for Michelangelo's birth record in the 1866-1868 indices but couldn't see. I was going to recheck today, but unfortunately I have somehow wiped the indices that I saved.

The following link, which I have previously given here, leads you to Gaetano Scafidi's original birth entry and also his younger brother Giuseppe, born 10 April 1893. (Maria's surname is indexed incorrectly as “Calcano” not “Galeano” but the record says “Galeano”. It is interesting to note that in the notes it says that Maria Galeano's husband (ie Micheleangelo abbreviated to Michele in the record) was unable to appear to register the birth, because he was a long way from the town. Maybe he had already left for Egypt at this stage or maybe he was just working in another town? Just click on the images to view the actual records:
https://familysearch.org/search/collect ... id=1967753

Angela :D

AstronomyDomine
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: 21 Nov 2015, 10:55

Re: Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby AstronomyDomine » 08 Dec 2015, 09:08

Omg! THANK YOU! I don't know why but I wasn't able to find that marriage registration on family search before. Quite a revelation! You are such a sweetheart to take time out of your day to find it all for me and translate. I'll definitely do more poking around directly within the Messina records. There's probably some stuff amongst them that don't come up in the searches by the looks of it, or are incorrectly transcribed into the system so harder to find.

Very interesting about Michelangelo not being present for Giuseppe's birth registration. If it's not any trouble, could you give me a direct translation of what it says? There's also said to be some family connection to northern Italy that I haven't gotten to the bottom of, along with the well known Egypt connection. There's a story there, no doubt, may never know what but it's certainly tantalising.

Imperiales Santa is a very unusual name, isn't it? Very interesting indeed.

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 09 Dec 2015, 06:29

You are very welcome, Sarah. I was pleased that I was able to find the marriage record.

Here is a non-verbatim translation for Giuseppe's birth record:

Birth Act No 488: Giuseppe Scarfidi
Recorded on 13 April 1893, 9.40 am, Messina
Appearing was Giuseppa Cucinotta, 49, levatrice (midwife), living in Messina, to report that at 4 pm on 10 April 1893, at a house in Via Rocche, no number, to Maria Galeano, casalinga (housewife), wife of Michele Scarfidi, barbiere (barber), living in Messina, was born a male baby who she presented and gave the name Giuseppe.

Witnesses: Giovanni Senderi, 44, Commerciante? (dealer, merchant) and Giuseppe Giuliano, 47, civile (landowner)

This is what follows and is basically fairly standard wording when the father is not the one presenting the child and reporting the birth:

“La dichiarante ha denunciato la nascita suddetta per avere nella suindicata qualita prestati I sussidi dell'arte sua nell'atto del parto ed in luoga del marito della Galeano Maria il quale non l'ha potute denunciare perche lontano della citta.”

If I try to a give an exact translation it won't make sense. It basically says that: the registrant (in this case it is the midwife, Giuseppa Cucinotta), has reported the said birth in the absence of Maria Galeano's husband who was unable to report the birth because he was far from the city.

The side note dated 19 September 1933 says that on 30 July 1933 Giuseppe married with Violina? Bagnoli in Torino? (Turin) which of course is in the North of Italy so maybe that is the connection with the North of Italy you mention.

Thinking about your Egyptian connection. Have you ever used the Australian National Archives site: http://www.naa.gov.au/

It is excellent and user friendly. I found the following there and I'm not sure whether this might be your Peter Agius or not. My thoughts were that maybe if you spend some time searching the site for immigrant relatives, you may be able to request documents like imigration papers, naturalisation papers, etc from which you might be able to glean more information to help you to back track and learn more about the Egyptian connection. I did this last year for a relative and was able to obtain a lot of extra info and was able to confirm a few things. It's just a thought. There is also the Immigration Museum in Melbourne which I understand is outstanding.

Passenger FAMILY NAME,
Given names Title Alternative FAMILY NAME,
Given names Ship/aircraft name
AGIUS, Peter
MISR (The Vessel)

Port of embarkation
Port of disembarkation
Date of arrival
Port Said Melbourne 21 Feb 1949

Barcode no
9245057 View item details

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Scripts/ ... Search.asp

Angela :D

AstronomyDomine
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: 21 Nov 2015, 10:55

Re: Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby AstronomyDomine » 16 Dec 2015, 10:15

First of all, sorry for the late reply! Thanks so much for the further translations, it's really helpful to have every last detail, and very interesting to consider the community the Scarfidi's were within in Messina.

The whole thing about the north of Italy I've been told is from my mother (who married into the family). She remembers my grandmother Maria Scarfidi/Agius talking about her family being from up there, not far from the Swiss border. This was over 30 years ago though so that's about all I know. Mum was very surprised to learn that my gg grandparents were Sicilian though, she always thought they were from the north of Italy. She doesn't speak Italian though so there conversations were very basic. I think it may have to do with Carmela's family. She was Italian born in Egypt, but perhaps her family was from northern Italy or something. Unless of course she was talking about her grandparents or something, which is also possible I suppose. I asked mum if she thinks it was Turin where she said they were from, but she doesn't think so. She keeps telling me she can find it on a map for me but I've been asking her to do it for the last bunch of years and she never gets around to it, it's so frustrating!

I've got all the records from the Agius family immigration - from the archives, and from ancestry.com etc. and as far as genealogy is concerned, I've been able to follow back my great grandmother Concetta Grech/Agius' line back to about 1640 Malta. I'm completely stuck at my great grandfather George Agius though. Concetta and George (both Maltese in Egypt) stayed in Egypt and no one really knows what happened to them - and I can't find any records really. All I have in regards to George is his name and that maybe he was born around 1878, and there's rumours about a connection to the Suez canal (of course not uncommon that Maltese and Italians in Egypt worked in relation to it or on it). It's a long shot, but do you have any ideas on where to look for Egyptian (esp Port Said) records? I think there's a good possibility that a lot of the records were destroyed in conflict (I've read about lots of records being destroyed in fires etc), but it's worth asking, since you are so knowledgeable. :)

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Re: Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 17 Dec 2015, 11:49

Happy to help, Sarah.

Re: Egyptian records, I'll make some enquiries. I've had a little look today online to see what's there, which you have probably also done, but I couldn't see anything. You could maybe make an enquiry on a separate thread here on IG. There may be other members of the forum who can help with your Egyptian story.

You mentioned that you had only recently learned of Gaetano Scarfidi and Carmela Vella. Where did you learn this – was it from your national archives? Is there anything else you can tell me about Carmela Vella? Are you sure she was Italian and not Maltese? (You can pm me if you would rather.) I've had a quick look through some of the indices of Messina just now, and also the other day, and I can't see the surnames Vella nor Valla but there are similar surnames eg Veila. I thought you might be interested in the following:

Distribution of the Surname Vella in Italy: http://www.gens.info/italia/it/turismo- ... nKHFfl96Uk

Distribution of the name Surname Valla in Italy: http://www.gens.info/italia/it/turismo- ... nJ66fl96Uk

I'm wondering whether we could write to Messina and and ask them to send you a copy of Gaetano and Carmela's 1911 marriage record. A copy of a marriage certificate or some other form of notification was obviously sent to Italy in 1917? This just “might,” hopefully, give some information about Carmela's birthplace? It's just a thought.

BTW: Gaetano and Carmela were married on 14 May 1911.

Angela

AngelaGrace56
Master
Master
Posts: 2560
Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 10:54

Birth Record: Maria Filomena Galeano

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 17 Dec 2015, 11:53

Birth Record No 208: Maria Filomena Galeano
Recorded on 24 May 1862, 11 am, Messina
Appearing was Gaetano Galeano, 32 yo, Calzolaio (cobbler/shoemaker), living via Monesteri, to present a baby girl born to Giuseppa Costa, his wife, age 34. Maria Filomena was born on 23 May 1862 at 7 pm. She was baptised on 25 May 1862, (church of) S.Leonardo.

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Angela
(The "smilie" icons arn't working, but I'm smiling:-))

User avatar
Edmondo
Staff
Staff
Posts: 787
Joined: 11 Jul 2002, 00:00
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Gaetano Scarfidi birth registration and marriage

Postby Edmondo » 17 Dec 2015, 12:16

Smilies have been fixed :wink:
Tandem fit surculus arbor


Return to “Italian language, handwriting , script & translations”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests