Help translating military records

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msavoua1
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Help translating military records

Postby msavoua1 » 06 Apr 2016, 01:46

Can anyone translate these military records please.
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AngelaGrace56
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Re: Help translating military records

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 06 Apr 2016, 22:03

First Page, First Column:

Francesco Savoia
Residence at the Time of Enrollment: Toritto, Bari, Via Carmine, No 26

Personal Data (Marks, Special Conditions, Marriages and Widowhood):

Son of: Carlo
and of: Maddalena Paccione
Regligion: Catholic
Born: 12 June 1919, Toritto, Bari
Stature: 1.68 m. Chest 0.86
Hair Colour: Brown and straight (liscia?)
Face: Oval
Nose: reg. (regular?)
Chin: Round
Eyes: Brown
Eyebrows: Brown
Forehead: reg. (regular?)
Colour: Roseo – rosy? My father's military record/passport also have Roseo – he was brown skinned (olive) with reddish undertone
Mouth: reg. (regular?)
Teeth: healthy
Particular Signs: None mentioned
Profession: Muratore (Bricklayer/Mason)
Can he read: Unable to read and write
Qualifications: Illiterate


Enlisted: Toritto, Bari

Elected residence when applying for leave and subsequent changes: Via Donizetti, 8, Torrito, Bari

Under (Distinzioni e Servizi Speciali (Distinctions and Special Services): Service ?


I've made a start for you. I'll come back to it much later if no one else is able to read. These military records can take more time to translate because they are a bit more “specialist”. They have military terms and other unfamiliar words that are not known to us civilians. It's nice to have a description of what your ancester may have looked like.

Angela :D

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Re: Help translating military records

Postby PippoM » 07 Apr 2016, 08:24

I try, as I have some trouble in translating such military terms, as Angela said...

He ended his military conscription on Apr 24th, 1939 and was put on unlimited leave.
On Feb 4th, 1940 he was called to arms again (Italy was not at war yet). He was first assigned to the 45th Artillery Regiment "Cirene" and then sent to the 14th in Bari.
He left to Northern Africa by ship on Feb 12th from Bari.
On Feb 14 he arrived at Bengasi.
From June 11th he was in a war area with the 45th Regiment.
On Jan 5th, 1941 he became a prisoner of war after the battle of Bardia, and left war area.
On Jul 9th, 1946 he was sent back home from imprisonment and got to Naples by ship.

Nothing is said about the time he was a prisoner of war.
I think only Red Cross documents can tell you about this.
It is more or less like my GF's story, and this reminds me that I should get his military documents (I already got those of Red Cross)


The day after he showed himself at the military accommodation center in Bari, and got a 60 days repatriation leave.
After the 60 days leave, he went to the Military District of Bari, and got an unlimited leave (Sep 10th, 1946)
The printed annotation states nothing can be charged to him about how he was captured, and how he behaved when he was a POW

I hope you can understand my translation, and I beg you to correct my errors, so that I can learn (expecially if I didn't use the right words)
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

Certificate requests and genealogical researches in Italy.
Translation of your (old) documents and letters.
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msavoua1
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Re: Help translating military records

Postby msavoua1 » 07 Apr 2016, 11:59

Excellent translation...thank you so much. Your words were correct and I understood it perfectly. Now I just hope for the Red Cross to lift the suspension on WII research.

AngelaGrace56
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Re: Help translating military records

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 07 Apr 2016, 21:48

Great job, Pippo! I'd made a start but needed to go up country for the rest of the day. I was so interested in this particular document, because my father was also captured at the Battle of Bardia 3/4 January 1941, and then remained in British hands in four different pow camps in Egypt, South Africa, Scotland and then finally England where he remained for two years, returning to Italy in 1946, for some years. I also have his POW records from the Red Cross. They are very specific, much more so than his Military Record.
Angela :)

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Re: Help translating military records

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 07 Apr 2016, 21:51

Great job, Pippo! I'd made a start but needed to go up country for the rest of the day. I was so interested in this particular document, because (like thousands of others) my father, of similar age, was also captured at the Battle of Bardia 3/4 January 1941, and then remained in British hands in four different pow camps, four different countries, and finally England where he remained for two years, returning to Italy in 1946, for some years. I also have his POW records from the Red Cross. They are very specific, much more so than his Military Record.
Angela :)

msavoua1
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Re: Help translating military records

Postby msavoua1 » 07 Apr 2016, 23:03

I am very interested in finding out where he was during his capture as well. What can you tell me about what you found and where did you find the documents? I know the Red Cross has suspended research right now but what did you have to do to obtain it?

AngelaGrace56
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Re: Help translating military records

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 08 Apr 2016, 01:17

Sure.

I first wrote to ICRC in February 2013 (tracing.archives@icrc.org). They promptly wrote back referring me to an on-line form at their website, asking me to complete it. (I don't think it is there anymore.) They also said that, because of the large volume of requests, it would take on average, at least 12 months to get back to me. I kept tabs on their website, and later that year, or early 2014, I learned that they were stopping the service, (although there were exceptions), because they were busy scanning all the records with the intention to make them available online. (I know that the WW1 project has been completed and that these records are now online. I've never looked at them though.)

Early March 2014, I decided to followup with an email, letting them know that I was still awaiting dad's records. Once again, they promptly replied letting me know that they were still working on January 2013 requests so mine would still be a little while. I went to my letterbox on 24 April 2014 and there it was, a lovely letter from the ICRC together with a photocopied “Foglio d'Identificazione” (form of personal particulars) signed by dad (30 April 1943, after he'd finally arrrived in Great Britain), and a summary of dad's places of detention (four countries). It also had his ranking, his unit, place/date of capture, prisoner of war number. Basically the information was taken from radiograms and lists submitted by the British authorities and South African RC. I am really looking forward to the info going on line as hopefully they will include the actual lists and radiograms from which the info was gathered.

You could still write to ICRC in Geneva. I found them very courteous and helpful.

Angela

msavoua1
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Re: Help translating military records

Postby msavoua1 » 08 Apr 2016, 01:43

Thank you for a wonderfully informative reply. Do you have the address for the ICRC in Geneva and I will attempt to write to them.

AngelaGrace56
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Re: Help translating military records

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 08 Apr 2016, 06:56

You are very welcome.

I sent an email to: tracing.archives@icrc.org The Archivist I conversed with at the time was Caroline Kocherhans.

If you want to write via snailmail, you could write to:

International Committee of the Red Cross
19 Avenue de la Paix
1202 Geneva
Switzerland

This was the address on both the letter and the envelope sent to me. I've just checked on line and they are still at the same address.

All the best to you.

Angela :)


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