1617 death

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1617 death

Postby cj11788 » 11 Apr 2016, 02:09

Hello,

Can you please help me with the underlined death for Anna Vaglica.

Her married name is Anna Vaglica but what is Suoro in front of her name?

Her fathers name is Francesco but can you read her mothers name and Anna's maiden name?

Thanks

Chris
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Re: 1617 death

Postby erudita74 » 11 Apr 2016, 02:39

Chris
I don't know why there is an o at the end of the word before her name. Suora is the word for "sister" -a nun.
She was age 80. Her parents were deceased Francesco and, I believe the mother's name was Desideria Monacha`(also deceased).
Erudita

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Re: 1617 death

Postby cj11788 » 11 Apr 2016, 02:56

Thanks Erudita.
Chris

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Re: 1617 death

Postby erudita74 » 11 Apr 2016, 02:57

Also the father had a title (maestro)-master of his trade, whatever it was

Erudita

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Re: 1617 death

Postby cj11788 » 11 Apr 2016, 03:00

Erudita

Interesting that she was a nun at one point in her life.

Chris

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Re: 1617 death

Postby PippoM » 11 Apr 2016, 10:13

"Monacha" = "Nun" might even be referred to the deceased herself.
I think there's some ambiguity in this record.
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

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Re: 1617 death

Postby erudita74 » 11 Apr 2016, 13:35

Pippo
I believe Monacha` in this record is the surname of the mother and it is the Latin version of the surname Monaca or Monaco. Lo Monaco exists in Monreale today (Monaco in the province) and La Monaca in the province of Palermo.

p. 51 in the following reference-shows Monacha is the Latin

https://books.google.com/books?id=S9dxT ... dq=monacha`+vs+monaca+or+monaco&source=bl&ots=gdyd8HMLWf&sig=PJ03gQPRSuKLSLdkTl50Lrw-M4g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjxvqqdvYbMAhXB1CYKHSA-DqcQ6AEIQzAI#v=onepage&q=monacha%60%20vs%20monaca%20or%20monaco&f=false

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Re: 1617 death

Postby erudita74 » 11 Apr 2016, 14:17

Pippo
Now that I've studied the other records on these two pages, it does not seem that the maiden names of the mothers were given. So now my only thought is that, if the mother was a nun as well, then perhaps she entered the convent as a widow. Possibly both women were widows when they entered the convent??? I also saw La Monaca as a surname in one of the early indices. Of course, the names are alphabetized in the index according to first name, so it's hard to find others with the surname.

I'd better get out walking now before I get crazier on this one!
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Re: 1617 death

Postby cj11788 » 11 Apr 2016, 14:53

Hello Erudita,

I was looking at the marriage certificate for her son and it also mentions suoro. Maybe she was a nun before being married?

This is interesting.

Chris

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Re: 1617 death

Postby erudita74 » 11 Apr 2016, 15:59

Hi Chris
I need to do some research about the issue, as I don't want to mislead you. This will take time.
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Re: 1617 death

Postby erudita74 » 11 Apr 2016, 16:23

Chris
I meant to add that, offhand, I do know that in Medieval times, widowed women of the upper classes would often enter convents and become nuns, and they would assume "in charge" positions, as they had a lot of social connections. I just have to do research about widows from the lower classes. I do know that, when a woman was widowed, the dowry she had brought to the marriage would be returned to her. It normally cost money to enter a convent and, so it's possible, that as a widow, a woman entered the convent as a safe haven-to help protect her from advances of men in her town and thus to help her preserve her family honor. Anyway, these are some thoughts I have on the subject, but I really need to do research to substantiate the validity of them.
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Re: 1617 death

Postby liviomoreno » 11 Apr 2016, 16:51

erudita74 wrote:Pippo
Now that I've studied the other records on these two pages, it does not seem that the maiden names of the mothers were given.
...
Erudita

The 5th record on the left has "Barbara Cuneo (or Curreo) daughter of the deceased Michele and Antonina Sardo". In this case the maiden name of the mother is given!

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Re: 1617 death

Postby erudita74 » 11 Apr 2016, 17:50

Thanks for noticing that, Livio. Four eyes are always better than two!
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Re: 1617 death

Postby cj11788 » 11 Apr 2016, 17:55

Pippo and Erudita,

I just looked in the monreale marriage index from the 1500's and there are a couple of LoMonaco names there.

Chris

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Re: 1617 death

Postby erudita74 » 11 Apr 2016, 18:34

http://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/view ... ontext=etd

For some reason, the link opens on page 50, but you should read back through pages in the 40s and then forward from this page.

"It is evident that both the practice of being a midwife and the practice of becoming a nun were both acceptable social outlets for a widow."-p. 51

Lots of other interesting info in this paper as well

Erudita


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