Quick Translation Question

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sacesta
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Quick Translation Question

Postby sacesta » 19 May 2016, 01:15

Here's a quick one that I think I may already know the answer to. This record of baptism seems to show an Antonia and I see what looks to me like the Latin word "natam" which I believe is the accusative feminine singular of the word "natus".

When I first came across this record I thought it was for an Antonio Aceste born to Benedetto Aceste and Vincenza Papa. But Antonio had a sister known as Nina, and can be short for Antonina. It seems that this might be the baptism record for Nina, not Antonio. What do you think?

Steve

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Steve Acesta

Researching Calatafimi, Trapani
Surnames Aceste, Papa, Cusenza, Gruppuso, Sciortino, Sparacino, Zito, and Vona.

Researching Montevago, Agrigento (Girgenti)
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Re: Quick Translation Question

Postby erudita74 » 19 May 2016, 01:39

Steve
This is definitely a baptism record for Antonia (that's how her first name is written and not as Antonina). In fact, squished in right after her first name is her marriage info. She married a Salvatore Mule' on July 31,1924. He was the son of Leonardo e xxxx (I can't make out the mother's name).

Erudita

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Re: Quick Translation Question

Postby sacesta » 19 May 2016, 03:10

Thanks Erudita, that confirms what I already thought. I couldn't quite read the additional info either, so the info you provided helps.

I learned of my grandfather's sisters names by word of mouth. I was told they were Giovanna, Antoinette, and Nina. But aren't both Antoinette and Nina forms of Antonia or Antonina? If that is true, I may have the names of only two of Rocco's sisters. I'll have to look again to see what else I can find. The problem is that the records date only until 1910 and some of Rocco's siblings may have been born after that date. I may not be able to find records for all of them.

Thanks again,

Steve
Steve Acesta

Researching Calatafimi, Trapani
Surnames Aceste, Papa, Cusenza, Gruppuso, Sciortino, Sparacino, Zito, and Vona.

Researching Montevago, Agrigento (Girgenti)
Surnames Infranco, La Rocca, Mandina, Bilello, Cacioppo, and Cardino.

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Re: Quick Translation Question

Postby erudita74 » 19 May 2016, 05:33

Steve
I think for the groom's mother it says "mater ignotae" (unknown mother).

As to Antonina and Nina. I just realized that in Italian the first name Nina can be a name unto itself and not necessarily a nickname. So it's possible that one daughter was Antonia or Antonina and another daughter was just Nina.

Erudita

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Re: Quick Translation Question

Postby sacesta » 19 May 2016, 14:26

Yes, I think you're correct Erudita. The mother is unknown. I read the groom's name as Sebastian Mule. Father as Leonardo.

You make some interesting points regarding the names Nina, Antoinette, Antonia and Antonina. In records I've seen Antonia and Antonina used interchangeably and I know that Nina can be a nickname for Antonina. I think also that Antoinette can be derived from Antonia or Antonina. It has in the case of my aunt. It seems that all four names are interchangeable.

I suppose that one sister could have been baptized as either Nina or Antoinette. It leaves me wondering which of these two sisters Antonia is. Is she Nina or is she Antoinette? I won't know until I find the other sister.

I did not see a Nina or an Antoinette in the records. Their records may not have been photographed yet. Film 2015876 covers baptisms from 1863-1910, among other records. If any of the siblings were born after 1910, I will not find them on this film.

The more I learn, the more questions I have. For instance, how would the father of a child be known, but not the mother? There has to be a story there.

Steve
Steve Acesta

Researching Calatafimi, Trapani
Surnames Aceste, Papa, Cusenza, Gruppuso, Sciortino, Sparacino, Zito, and Vona.

Researching Montevago, Agrigento (Girgenti)
Surnames Infranco, La Rocca, Mandina, Bilello, Cacioppo, and Cardino.

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liviomoreno
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Re: Quick Translation Question

Postby liviomoreno » 19 May 2016, 15:19

You are correct, the groom is Sebastiano Mulè, son of Leonardo and mother unknown.
Antoinette is not an Italian name I believe it is the Americanization of Antonia and Antonina.
To add some confusion: Nina is a name per se, although rare, and often is the nickname not only for Antonia or Antonina, but also for Giovanna.

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Re: Quick Translation Question

Postby erudita74 » 19 May 2016, 17:08

Yes, Steve, the groom was Sebastiano. I have no idea what made me type Salvatore because I clearly saw Sebastiano when I read the record.

Interesting that Livio mentioned Nina as a nickname for Giovanna. Forgot about that one, but in the U.S., women whose Italian name is Giovanna often use the nickname Jennie and not Nina. You should try contacting the town to try to get info about these siblings. Give an approximate range of years for their births and see if you get a response.

BTW, I came across the following this morning. You've probably already seen this. There's one Aceste who may or may not be yours.

http://www.calatafimi.altervista.org/te ... rzo-11.pdf

As to why the name of Sebastiano's father is given but the mother is listed as unknown-maybe his parents weren't married. Hard to say definitively without access to his birth record.

Erudita

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Re: Quick Translation Question

Postby sacesta » 19 May 2016, 18:44

Well, this is getting interesting. Will the real Nina please stand up?

Salvatore Aceste, son of Benedetto must be a cousin. My grandfather, Rocco, was also the son of a Benedetto and had a younger brother Salvatore, whose record of baptism, by the way, I found yesterday with Antonia's. :)
Steve Acesta

Researching Calatafimi, Trapani
Surnames Aceste, Papa, Cusenza, Gruppuso, Sciortino, Sparacino, Zito, and Vona.

Researching Montevago, Agrigento (Girgenti)
Surnames Infranco, La Rocca, Mandina, Bilello, Cacioppo, and Cardino.

sacesta
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Re: Quick Translation Question

Postby sacesta » 19 May 2016, 18:47

Rocco Aceste had four younger brothers and three younger sisters that I know of.

Brothers - Camillo (b. 1895), Antonio, Salvatore (b. 1909), and Pino.

Sisters - Giovanna, Nina, and Antoinette (one of whom was born in 1901).

Grazie,

Steve
Steve Acesta

Researching Calatafimi, Trapani
Surnames Aceste, Papa, Cusenza, Gruppuso, Sciortino, Sparacino, Zito, and Vona.

Researching Montevago, Agrigento (Girgenti)
Surnames Infranco, La Rocca, Mandina, Bilello, Cacioppo, and Cardino.

sacesta
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Re: Quick Translation Question

Postby sacesta » 19 May 2016, 18:52

Giovanna is not Antonia. And Nina is not Giovanna. And since Nina can be a given name, maybe Antoinette is Antonia and the three sisters are Giovanna, Nina and Antonia?

This is a case in logic. Mine may be faulty.
Steve Acesta

Researching Calatafimi, Trapani
Surnames Aceste, Papa, Cusenza, Gruppuso, Sciortino, Sparacino, Zito, and Vona.

Researching Montevago, Agrigento (Girgenti)
Surnames Infranco, La Rocca, Mandina, Bilello, Cacioppo, and Cardino.

AngelaGrace56
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Re: Quick Translation Question

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 19 May 2016, 19:53

sacesta wrote:Giovanna is not Antonia. And Nina is not Giovanna. And since Nina can be a given name, maybe Antoinette is Antonia and the three sisters are Giovanna, Nina and Antonia?

This is a case in logic. Mine may be faulty.


Sounds good to me. This is an interesting discussion.

Antonetta is an Italian name. I know of several Italian women named Antonette. My cousin's given name is Nina, and I know of at least two other Italian women whose given name is Nina.

Angela :)


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