Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

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VotM
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Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

Postby VotM » 20 May 2016, 14:49

The attached image is an excerpt from my great-great-great grandfather's entry in the 1811 Riveli. Combining this with the index entry (not shown), and assuming that the word "albori" should have been "alberi" as per the index, my general impression is that the entry describes property he owned in Contrada Fiumara containing different types of trees. I'm guessing that this property adjoined lands owned by Domenico Molica, Maestro Nunzio Casianni and Maria Sciammetta.

As the general form of this entry seems to serve as the template for many other entries in the records of interest to me, I would welcome a full translation. Thanks in advance!
Attachments
sample_entry.jpg
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

VotM
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Re: Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

Postby VotM » 21 May 2016, 01:37

This was my first cut at collecting the words in the entry. The ellipses denote what appear to be the start and end of abbreviated words:

Dia possiedo ing...o(?) sad...o(?) territorio equità(?) Fiumara un pezzo di luogo con diversi albori conse con Domenico Molica[,] Maestro Nunzio Casianni[,] Maria Sciammetta quale intempo di mia possedere(?) l'ho(?) amministrato in economia pcio(?) fo feda con giarancco(?) d'averre potute perapite p l'anno 13 ap. 1809 e 1810 sesi fosse da me date ingalo...a(?). Sasmo di tari quatro. G

My overall understanding:

Possessing in the territory of Fiumara a piece of land with diverse trees - bordering [running along] Domenico Molica, Master Nunzio Casianni, and Maria Sciammetta - which are my own, adminstered economically [?...] in the years 1809 and 1810 [?...]. Assessed at four Tari.

I'd welcome both a better reading of the Italian text and a better (and fuller) translation.
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

erudita74
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Re: Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

Postby erudita74 » 21 May 2016, 02:39

Here's some help-

in questo suddetto territorio

before con and the name Domenico is the abbreviation for the word confinante (meaning adjoining, adjacent, neighboring)

quale in tempo di mia possessione l'ho amminstrato in economia

d'averne potuto percipire per l'anno (collect or net for the year)

se si fosse da me dato in gabella (I believe the abbreviation gab followed by the superscript "a" or "a" up in the air is an abbreviation for the word gabella, which is a tax or duty

That's as far I've gotten with this.

Erudita

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Re: Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

Postby erudita74 » 21 May 2016, 05:34

con giuramento (by oath) d'averne potuto percepire per l'anno (collect or net for the year)

Erudita

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Re: Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

Postby VotM » 21 May 2016, 11:41

Many thanks! Putting it all together, I think this is where the text currently stands...

Dia possiedo in questo suddetto territorio confinante territorio equità Fiumara un pezzo di luogo con diversi albori confinante con Domenico Molica[,] Maestro Nunzio Casianni[,] Maria Sciammetta quale in tempo di mia possessione fo feda con giuramento l'ho amminstrato in economia d'averne potuto percipire per l'anno 13 ay.(?) 1809 and 1810 se si fosse da me dato in gabella. Sasmo di tari quatro. G
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

erudita74
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Re: Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

Postby erudita74 » 21 May 2016, 12:00

VotM wrote:Many thanks! Putting it all together, I think this is where the text currently stands...

Dia possiedo in questo suddetto territorio confinante-this word does not appear here territorio equità Fiumara un pezzo di luogo con diversi albori confinante con Domenico Molica[,] Maestro Nunzio Casianni[,] Maria Sciammetta quale in tempo di mia possessione fo fede con giuramento l'ho amminstrato in economia d'averne potuto percepire per l'anno 13 ay.(?) 1809 and 1810 se si fosse da me dato in gabella. Sasmo ??? di tari ??? quatro. G



feda should be fede; I had a spelling error for the word percepire (the second vowel is an e and not an i as i originally typed)

I think the first word is Dice and not Dia (it should say "Si dice" and not just "dice" so I'm not 100% on this yet

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Re: Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

Postby VotM » 21 May 2016, 12:07

Thanks again. "Tari" is the word before "quatro". At that time there were 30 Tari to an Oncia.
https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Italy_ ... i_Taxation

Regarding "Dia", there are a couple more examples of similar paragraphs for comparison in the "Yet another difficult word" thread. The bottom one supports your thought that the word is "Dice".
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

erudita74
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Re: Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

Postby erudita74 » 21 May 2016, 12:19

You are right about tari.

The problem with these records is that there is no uniformity between those of one town and those of another. They are all so different. In my 19 years of Italian research, I have only been through one roll of microfilm with riveli for one of my own Sicilian ancestral towns and that was many many years ago. I'm waiting for them to be put online to try to attack them again. At the time, I only found one ancestor who was a colono or tenant farmer and the only info in the record was a count of how many mules he had and how many hectares of land he owned. It was way too expensive, frustrating, and time consuming for me.

Erudita

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Re: Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

Postby erudita74 » 21 May 2016, 13:31

I could be wrong but am thinking that the end of the document reads-

da me dato in gabella la somma di tari quattro lardo

I believe somma is abbreviated in the record. I see in the other entries that the word preceding it is "la" and not "sa". I believe the entry ends with an abbreviation for the word "lordo" which I see in the other entries as well. It looks like the letter "d" followed by the "o" up in the air. The word "lordo" refers to the gross amount to be taxed.

BTW, Nunzio's surname should be Carianni

Erudita

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Re: Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

Postby VotM » 21 May 2016, 19:33

erudita74 wrote:In my 19 years of Italian research, I have only been through one roll of microfilm with riveli for one of my own Sicilian ancestral towns and that was many many years ago. I'm waiting for them to be put online to try to attack them again.
Erudita

Some time between one and three weeks ago, a number of Sicilian Riveli records were made available online (e.g., Cefalu, Gioiosa Marea) -- but only if you go to see them at a Family History Center. It's not as nice as being able to work on them from home, but better than renting microfilms. It might bec worth rechecking the catalog page for your Sicilian ancestral towns.

I had very good luck. My ancestors from Gioiosa Marea had been farmers for generations, and I found my great-great-great grandfather (plus two of his brothers) very quickly in the index for 1811. The folio number given in the index made finding the full entry relatively easy. (The change made at some point in the past year to toggle between a multi-page presentation and single pages for the FamilySearch records also makes searching much easier!)

Hope this helps. Thanks again for all your work in looking over and correcting the sample I posted!
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

erudita74
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Re: Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

Postby erudita74 » 22 May 2016, 13:02

Thanks for the info. I checked the catalog for my own towns, and there is nothing about the riveli being available at a local center. Even if the catalog indicated that, I would still wait for them to be accessible online. I've been fortunate in having access to some church records, especially for the main surname in the ancestry. So I've gotten so much more info than I would have gotten from the riveli and have no gaps between the generations.
Erudita

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Re: Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

Postby VotM » 23 May 2016, 17:13

erudita74 wrote: I've been fortunate in having access to some church records, especially for the main surname in the ancestry.

You are fortunate, both in having access and being able to use them effectively. From the few transcripts of church records I've seen in the marriage "Allegati" (Gioiosa Marea and Cefalu), they do not appear to make research as easy as the civil records. The baptism records lack ages for the parents; the death records either restrict themselves to mentioning a living spouse or do not mention anyone at all. It must take considerably more patience to isolate the family lines.

erudita74 wrote:So I've gotten so much more info than I would have gotten from the riveli and have no gaps between the generations.

It's a different type of information, yielding a different view of an ancestor. I'd always wondered what type of farming my family did back in Sicily. Now I know that, at least for my father's father's line, the family was more likely tenders of trees and vines than sowers of seeds.

But I agree, the generational divide is a huge hurdle -- especially between 1748 and 1811!
LDS Gioiosa Marea "road map" post at
http://italiangenealogy.com/forum/itali ... logy/33808

LDS Cefalù, Termini Imerese and Villaurea "road map" post at
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/i ... 50#p239255

erudita74
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Re: Could someone help me with translating a Riveli record (1811)?

Postby erudita74 » 23 May 2016, 17:47

Yes, the church records don't always yield all of the information you want, but I have been successful in researching the ones available to me and putting families together at the earlier generation levels. My husband and I are both half Sicilian, and there are 9 towns involved, when you get back in time. I haven't even tried to add up how many rolls of riveli microfilm would be involved, if I wanted to research them. It's not just the time involved, but I can't even imagine the expense, especially now that microfilm rentals are so much more costly than when I used to rent them back in the 1990s. For at least two of the towns, the riveli microfilm is not limited to a single town, but has various towns on it. So, for now, my only option is to wait until the info is online, and then do what I can with them. Hopefully, by the time, they are available, I'll be more familiar with the abbreviations and terminology and be able to decipher them more readily.

I wish you continued luck with your research.
Erudita


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