Need help with a few birth cert phrases

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msabattini
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Need help with a few birth cert phrases

Postby msabattini » 02 Jun 2016, 05:59

Hi all,
Thanks in advance for your help.
My GGGF, Vincenzo, had 3 sons: Alfredo (my GGF), Angelo, and Alberto.
Here's the birth certificates for my GGF and great-uncles.

Alfredo's birth certificate seems typical, but since he is my link to Italian citizenship, I'd love to know exactly what it says. I realize that may be asking a lot, so maybe just any interesting details.
http://postimg.org/image/wkrk4i3pr/
http://postimg.org/image/gl8wky7nz/

For Angelo's, I'm just curious about the 3 words immediately after "moglie Stefani Ester".
http://postimg.org/image/69wjsafyn/

And Alberto.. this is the interesting one. From what I can make out, Vincenzo "stepped out" on Ester. I'd like to know exactly what it says between "nella casa posta in Montecorone al numero cinquantasette" and "e nato un bambino di sesso".
...Also, is there anything of interest in those last 5 handwritten lines?
http://postimg.org/image/4gtn3yurz/

Oh, can you make out Angelo and Alberto's wives' names in the margins?

Lastly, it seems Sabatini and Sabattini are used almost interchangeably.
Why is that, and will that cause any difficulty with the Consulate?
As you can see, Alfredo's birth cert (my GGF) says Sabatini. However all his US documents say Sabattini, and everything for my GF, F, and me are also Sabattini.

Thank you so much!
Matt

msabattini
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Re: Need help with a few birth cert phrases

Postby msabattini » 02 Jun 2016, 08:22

Edit: Angelo and Alberto would be my GG-uncles.

Also, on the matter of Sabatini vs Sabattini, I was told earlier by an esteemed member of this forum that it shouldn't be an issue, but to confirm with the Consulate. True to form, the Consulate did not respond to my inquiry. I do not trust the Consulate to be reasonable.
Anybody else in a similar situation? How did the Consulate react to the discrepancy?

erudita74
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Joined: 27 Aug 2012, 20:26

Re: Need help with a few birth cert phrases

Postby erudita74 » 02 Jun 2016, 12:32

msabattini wrote:Hi all,
Thanks in advance for your help.
My GGGF, Vincenzo, had 3 sons: Alfredo (my GGF), Angelo, and Alberto.
Here's the birth certificates for my GGF and great-uncles.

Alfredo's birth certificate seems typical, but since he is my link to Italian citizenship, I'd love to know exactly what it says. I realize that may be asking a lot, so maybe just any interesting details.
http://postimg.org/image/wkrk4i3pr/
http://postimg.org/image/gl8wky7nz/

For Angelo's, I'm just curious about the 3 words immediately after "moglie Stefani Ester". tessitrice seco lui con vivente weaver or textile worker living with him (referring to the husband
http://postimg.org/image/69wjsafyn/

And Alberto.. this is the interesting one. From what I can make out, Vincenzo "stepped out" on Ester. I'd like to know exactly what it says between "nella casa posta in Montecorone al numero cinquantasette" and "e nato un bambino di sesso".
...Also, is there anything of interest in those last 5 handwritten lines?
http://postimg.org/image/4gtn3yurz/

Oh, can you make out Angelo and Alberto's wives' names in the margins?

Lastly, it seems Sabatini and Sabattini are used almost interchangeably.
Why is that, and will that cause any difficulty with the Consulate?
As you can see, Alfredo's birth cert (my GGF) says Sabatini. However all his US documents say Sabattini, and everything for my GF, F, and me are also Sabattini.

Thank you so much!
Matt

erudita74
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Posts: 4843
Joined: 27 Aug 2012, 20:26

Re: Need help with a few birth cert phrases

Postby erudita74 » 02 Jun 2016, 12:36

msabattini wrote:Hi all,
Thanks in advance for your help.
My GGGF, Vincenzo, had 3 sons: Alfredo (my GGF), Angelo, and Alberto.
Here's the birth certificates for my GGF and great-uncles.

Alfredo's birth certificate seems typical, but since he is my link to Italian citizenship, I'd love to know exactly what it says. I realize that may be asking a lot, so maybe just any interesting details.
http://postimg.org/image/wkrk4i3pr/
http://postimg.org/image/gl8wky7nz/

For Angelo's, I'm just curious about the 3 words immediately after "moglie Stefani Ester". tessitrice seco lui convivente-weaver or textile worker living with him (referring to the husband)
http://postimg.org/image/69wjsafyn/

And Alberto.. this is the interesting one. From what I can make out, Vincenzo "stepped out" on Ester. I'd like to know exactly what it says between "nella casa posta in Montecorone al numero cinquantasette" and "e nato un bambino di sesso". the birth resulted from a union with a woman who was unmarried and not a relative in any degree which would prove an obstacle.

...Also, is there anything of interest in those last 5 handwritten lines?
http://postimg.org/image/4gtn3yurz/ the declarant indicated to the town official that the infant was not being physically presented at the town hall because of the long distance from where it was born, but attested to the veracity of the birth

Oh, can you make out Angelo and Alberto's wives' names in the margins?

Lastly, it seems Sabatini and Sabattini are used almost interchangeably.
Why is that, and will that cause any difficulty with the Consulate?
As you can see, Alfredo's birth cert (my GGF) says Sabatini. However all his US documents say Sabattini, and everything for my GF, F, and me are also Sabattini.

Thank you so much!
Matt

erudita74
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Posts: 4843
Joined: 27 Aug 2012, 20:26

Re: Need help with a few birth cert phrases

Postby erudita74 » 02 Jun 2016, 12:55

This is all I can do for now. Back later.
Erudita

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Re: Need help with a few birth cert phrases

Postby erudita74 » 02 Jun 2016, 14:49

Here's the link on family search to Alfredo's birth record. It is better if next time, you copy and paste the url at the top of the page so that one of the volunteers can then enlarge the record to read it. Thanks.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=1947797

The record is dated Dec 4, 1872, a Wednesday, in the town hall of Borgo Panigale. Appearing was Vincenzo Sabbtini, age 31, a blacksmith, the son of deceased Angelo (Sabbatini). He presented a male infant born on Tuesday the 3rd at 9 P.M. to his wife Ester Stefani. She was age 30 and the daughter of deceased Vincenzo Stefani. The birth took place in the house in this town, in the section Rigosa al Civico, #12. The infant was given the name Alfredo Pio Maria (Sabbatini).

Alberto married Leonlina Masini in Zocca on June 11, 1912 record #21. Unfortunately, the online records only go to 1900

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... /Matrimoni

Angelo Giovanni married ? Bedetti in Zocca on Dec 11, 1904. Still trying to decipher her first name.

Erudita

msabattini
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Re: Need help with a few birth cert phrases

Postby msabattini » 02 Jun 2016, 15:46

Wow, THANKS!!!

And yes, I should've included the familysearch link for Alfredo - sorry, I wasn't thinking. The other two, though, are the best I could do because I had to go to an LDS family history center to see those images and when I tried to download them it kept telling me there was a "contract restriction". Even the staff was puzzled. So I had to resort to the Windows snipping tool.

erudita74
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Re: Need help with a few birth cert phrases

Postby erudita74 » 02 Jun 2016, 15:49

I'll keep trying to figure out her first name, but for now, she remains a ? Bedetti.

I'm sorry but I can't answer your question concerning the consulate requirements on the spelling variations of the surname for dual citizenship. Someone else will have to address that issue.

Erudita

erudita74
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Re: Need help with a few birth cert phrases

Postby erudita74 » 02 Jun 2016, 18:30

My best guess is that Bedetti's first name is Enrica, but when I search the Zocca birth records, I only find one born in 1878 with a notation in the margin for a marriage to someone different. Record #119.

As to the spelling issue for citizenship, you should repost that question under the category which deals with citizenship and immigration, where someone who knows answers about requirements might see it.

Erudita

msabattini
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Re: Need help with a few birth cert phrases

Postby msabattini » 02 Jun 2016, 21:33

Ok. Thanks again Erudita!

erudita74
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Re: Need help with a few birth cert phrases

Postby erudita74 » 02 Jun 2016, 23:13

I was correct about the name Enrica. I found her birth record in 1878, but not the one I was originally looking at.

Enrica Maria Emilia Bedetti-her marriage info is in the margin of her birth record

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0


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