Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

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kencwalker
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Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby kencwalker » 09 Jun 2016, 20:16

I could use a little help deciphering Lorenzo's birth, especially the birth date, and any unusual remarks.

This is what I have so far:
Recorded: 14-January-1869
Father: Pilati, Giovanni Battista, age 43, contadino, living in this city
in the presence of Pedroncelli, Giuseppe, age 25, military (soldier?)
and Spelzini, Provino, age 42, town bailiff, living in this city
declared on Sunday of the past month [andanted mese]
his wife: Maddalena Curti, age 39, no job (profession), living with him
"something" about a separate house in Madesimo number 198 on the street Case dei Pilatti
Son: Lorenzo

Reference:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cat=985332

Thanks in advance,
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

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Re: Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby kencwalker » 09 Jun 2016, 21:50

kencwalker wrote:declared on Sunday of the past month [andanted mese]

correcting a translation error for "andante mese":
It should be "Sunday of the current month".
Still haven't determined the date. Maybe I need a 1869 calendar to figure it out.
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

AngelaGrace56
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Re: Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 09 Jun 2016, 22:06

Recorded on Thursday, 14 January 1869 so born Sunday, 10 January 1869, I would suggest. At a quick glance it seems to be saying at the bottom that the father was exempted from presenting the baby after the birth. I'll let someone else catch this as I'm out the door shortly.

Angela

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Re: Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby mmogno » 09 Jun 2016, 22:21

kencwalker wrote:Still haven't determined the date. Maybe I need a 1869 calendar to figure it out.

"nel giorno di Domenica dieci andante mese" --> on Sunday 10 of the current month (January)

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Re: Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby kencwalker » 09 Jun 2016, 22:51

mmogno wrote:"nel giorno di Domenica dieci andante mese" --> on Sunday 10 of the current month (January)

Thanks, of course! I totally misread dieci (thought it was di ---). After my snarky "1869 calendar" comment, a quick search revealed a handy calendar site, and I figured out 10-Jan was the Sunday before 14-Jan in 1869. :)

AngelaGrace56 wrote:A quick glance it seems to be saying at the bottom that the father was exempted from presenting the baby after the birth. I'll let someone else catch this


Thanks Angela. I'm curious to learn if there's more to the story about not presenting bambino Lorenzo.

-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

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Re: Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby erudita74 » 09 Jun 2016, 23:28

the presentation of the infant was dispensed with "per il tempo imperverso"= (not sure, but I think it means because of stormy weather, athough that's not the literal translation of the words).

Erudita

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Re: Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby kencwalker » 10 Jun 2016, 00:17

I likely reason and reasonable translation.
This is early January in the Italian Alps, so probably snowing like crazy. :)
My goat herding family spent winters down in Verceia.
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

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Re: Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby erudita74 » 10 Jun 2016, 00:22

Yes, I believe you are correct. The word imperverso means "raging" or "violent."

Erudita

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Re: Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby kencwalker » 10 Jun 2016, 16:34

Thanks for all the help.
I'm still trying to understand the phrase about their house in Madesimo:
"si è sgravata in Madesimo nella casa distinta"
Am I reading the handwriting correctly?
Any suggestion on the translation?
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

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Re: Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby mmogno » 10 Jun 2016, 18:18

Pilatti Giovanni Battista ... ha dichiarato che ... sua moglie Maddalena Curti ... si è sgravata in Madesimo nella casa distinta col numero centonovant'otto, lungo la via denominata Case dei Pilatti, di un bambino di sesso mascolino ...

Giovanni Battista Pilatti ... stated that ... his wife Maddalena Curti ... gave birth in Madesimo, in the house marked by the number 198, along the street called Case dei Pilatti, to a male child ...

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Re: Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby kencwalker » 10 Jun 2016, 18:45

mmogno wrote:si è sgravata in Madesimo nella casa distinta col numero centonovant'otto, lungo la via denominata Case dei Pilatti, ...

gave birth in Madesimo, in the house marked by the number 198, along the street called Case dei Pilatti ...


mmogno,
Thanks I've never seen si è sgravata used before, and not on my word lists. Google Translate was stumped too. Glad I found "mmogno translate". :)
Not nearly as interesting as I first suspected. Thanks!
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

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Re: Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 10 Jun 2016, 20:48

kencwalker wrote:
mmogno wrote:si è sgravata in Madesimo nella casa distinta col numero centonovant'otto, lungo la via denominata Case dei Pilatti, ...

gave birth in Madesimo, in the house marked by the number 198, along the street called Case dei Pilatti ...


mmogno,
Thanks I've never seen si è sgravata used before, and not on my word lists. Google Translate was stumped too. Glad I found "mmogno translate". :)
Not nearly as interesting as I first suspected. Thanks!
-Ken


(I agree with mmogno) and I thought that you might be interested to know that "si è sgravata" literally means "she got free of weight" .... but yes, "gave birth".

I also agree that it is great to have "mmogno translate" on board.

Angela

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Re: Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby kencwalker » 10 Jun 2016, 21:59

AngelaGrace56 wrote:you might be interested to know that "si è sgravata" literally means "she got free of weight" .... but yes, "gave birth".


Everyone mother reading this tread can identify with that expression. :)
sgravata is a weird word...I can't think of many Italian words that begin with 3 consonants.
Thanks to all for the interesting translation help. Learn something new every day!
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

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Re: Pilatti, Lorenzo birth, record #1

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 10 Jun 2016, 22:31

kencwalker wrote:
AngelaGrace56 wrote:you might be interested to know that "si è sgravata" literally means "she got free of weight" .... but yes, "gave birth".


Everyone mother reading this tread can identify with that expression. :)
sgravata is a weird word...I can't think of many Italian words that begin with 3 consonants.
Thanks to all for the interesting translation help. Learn something new every day!
-Ken


It doesn't have a happy ring to it. It grates a little.

I found this thread which explains the meaning better. Others may find it interesting as well.

"Si è sgravata" is referred to the mother and means "gave birth" (from "gravida"="pregnant", with the same origin from "grave"="weight", literally "set herself free from a weight") “
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/l ... ta#p192562

Angela


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