new term: zion?

Having problems with the Italian language? Do you need help to translate or understand an old family document? There is always someone who can help you!
kencwalker
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 193
Joined: 07 May 2016, 18:30
Location: Dallas, TX

new term: zion?

Postby kencwalker » 23 Jul 2016, 04:25

Hi there IG translation and handwriting experts.
I stumbled in to a new term (at least it's new to me). In the 2nd attached birth record, the child is NOT presented by the father (likely the wet nurse). In the area where the mother's name is given, there is this entry: "da Rinaldi Maria fu Carlo contadina moglie di Cantoia Giuseppe di Franesco zion contadino entrambi residente in questo comune."
I figured out most of it:
The parents are Maria Rinaldi and Giuseppe Cantoia (son of Francesco), both residents of this town. What I can't figure out is the term zion after "di Francesco".
I've seen this 2 other times, and think it's something I need to know.
In the 1st birth record, the the father's name is entered as:
"Cantoia Giuseppe fu altro zion"

I could also use some help with the final handwritten sentence. I understand it explains why Virginia Ciceri did the presentation, but not clear on the details.
Thanks!
-Ken
Attachments
attach_2.png
attach_1.png
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

User avatar
Tessa78
Master
Master
Posts: 11580
Joined: 07 Sep 2009, 18:09

Re: new term: zion?

Postby Tessa78 » 24 Jul 2016, 21:11

As to the "zion" - in both cases it is underlined indicating that the clerk made an error.
I do not have any idea what he may have intended...

The last paragraph states that the declarant/midwife made the declaration of the above birth as she helped with the birth, and in place of the husband of Rinaldi who was not able to make the declaration because he was far away.
The act was read to all the participants and all signed (including the midwife)

T.

kencwalker
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 193
Joined: 07 May 2016, 18:30
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: new term: zion?

Postby kencwalker » 25 Jul 2016, 15:06

Tessa78 wrote:As to the "zion" - in both cases it is underlined indicating that the clerk made an error.
I do not have any idea what he may have intended.

Thanks Tessa. I wasn't aware of this usage of underline. I have seen errors marked with the hash character (#), and the correction similarly noted at the bottom of the record (for corrections to dates or names).

Any idea what "fu altro" references (it translate as "was another"). Another Giovanni?!?
I've seen in on 3 different birth records, each with a different father listed.
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

kencwalker
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 193
Joined: 07 May 2016, 18:30
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: new term: zion?

Postby kencwalker » 30 Jul 2016, 21:54

kencwalker wrote:Any idea what "fu altro" references (it translate as "was another"). Another Giovanni?!? I've seen in on 3 different birth records, each with a different father listed.

I'm bumping this to see if anyone has thoughts on the term "fu altro". I've seen this used a few more times. Example from image below:
"è comparso Cantoia Giuseppe fu altro, di anni quarantanove, contadino"

Thanks,
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

User avatar
Biff83
Master
Master
Posts: 3106
Joined: 02 Jan 2007, 00:00
Contact:

Re: new term: zion?

Postby Biff83 » 30 Jul 2016, 22:12

Just a guess. But possibly "son of a deceased (fu) father with a different (altro) surname."

Biff
"To dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free, silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands"

User avatar
liviomoreno
Master
Master
Posts: 5423
Joined: 13 Feb 2004, 00:00
Location: Rome, Italy
Contact:

Re: new term: zion?

Postby liviomoreno » 31 Jul 2016, 08:32

kencwalker wrote:
kencwalker wrote:Any idea what "fu altro" references (it translate as "was another"). Another Giovanni?!? I've seen in on 3 different birth records, each with a different father listed.

I'm bumping this to see if anyone has thoughts on the term "fu altro". I've seen this used a few more times. Example from image below:
"è comparso Cantoia Giuseppe fu altro Giuseppe, di anni quarantanove, contadino"

Thanks,
-Ken

kencwalker
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 193
Joined: 07 May 2016, 18:30
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: new term: zion?

Postby kencwalker » 01 Aug 2016, 00:21

liviomoreno wrote:Example from image below:
"è comparso Cantoia Giuseppe fu altro Giuseppe"

liviomoreno,
if I understand, altro means the father's first name is the same as the son's. So:
"è comparso Cantoia Giuseppe fu altro implies his father was the late Giuseppe, And
"è comparso Cantoia Bartolomeo fu altro implies his father was the late Bartolomeo, And
"è comparso Cantoia Mamante fu altro implies his father was the late Mamante.
Right?
Thanks,
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

User avatar
liviomoreno
Master
Master
Posts: 5423
Joined: 13 Feb 2004, 00:00
Location: Rome, Italy
Contact:

Re: new term: zion?

Postby liviomoreno » 01 Aug 2016, 07:55

Correct


Return to “Italian language, handwriting , script & translations”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests