Father on birth record

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kencwalker
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Father on birth record

Postby kencwalker » 30 Jul 2016, 23:06

Hi IG translation team,
I found s somewhat nonstandard birth record, and am looking for confirmation of my reading and translation (especially regarding the infant's father).
What I gathered:
Birth Date:10-March-1868
Baby's name: Domenico Cantoia
Mother's name: Castaldi, Rosa di Carlo e Ubertinazzi Antonia
Father's name: fu Cantoia Domenico fu Francesco

So, if I understand, the father is deceased and also named Domenico.
Composite image attached (2 pages from LDS flms).
Thanks,
-Ken
Attachments
B_1868-03-10_Cantoia_Domenico.png
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

erudita74
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Re: Father on birth record

Postby erudita74 » 30 Jul 2016, 23:57

Yes, Ken, you have it correct. The midwife made the presentation, as the father of the infant was deceased and obviously could not. The infant was named Domenico for his deceased father, who had also been a Domenico, and who was the son of deceased Francesco.
Erudita

kencwalker
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Re: Father on birth record

Postby kencwalker » 01 Aug 2016, 00:08

HI Erudita, thanks for confirming.
Prior to this, I've never seen a deceased father on a birth record.
This birth precedes the earliest online death records in Cavaglio, so is helpful as it gives a 9 month window for the father's date of death.
Regards, -Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

erudita74
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Re: Father on birth record

Postby erudita74 » 01 Aug 2016, 12:45

Ken
My husband has a direct line ancestor who was a Vincenzo. He died in Aug of 1862 and his wife gave birth to his son, also a Vincenzo, in Dec of the same year. You don't come across this type of situation very often, but it did happen. Also, in addition to tracking down the father's death info, check to see if the mother remarried and had additional children. In the case of my husband's ancestor, the mother remarried in June of 1863, when her son was 6 months old, and then had a number of children with the second husband through 1876. She then remarried for a second time by 1878. So also check for subsequent marriages of the mother, and the births of half siblings.
Erudita

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Re: Father on birth record

Postby kencwalker » 01 Aug 2016, 18:10

erudita74 wrote:in addition to tracking down the father's death info, check to see if the mother remarried and had additional children -- subsequent marriages of the mother, and the births of half siblings.

Thanks...I've thought abut that. I'm in the process of sorting through the Cantoias, and haven't figured out if (or how) I'm related to Domenico Cantoia (the father) or Francesco (the GF). Ironically, my GG-GF Carlo Cantoia married Annunciata Castaldi, so I could also be related to Rosa Castaldi. I don't have a first name for my GGG-GF Castaldi. All of these records are a few years prior to the magical 1866 date.
Ironically, the current Ufficio Anagrafe in Cavaglio is Viviana Castaldi.
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

erudita74
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Re: Father on birth record

Postby erudita74 » 01 Aug 2016, 19:23

Hi Ken
Glad you asked your question, as I had totally forgotten to check to see if my husband's great great grandmother had children with the second husband after his great great grandfather Vincenzo died. I guess that, when I researched the state civil records years ago, it just hadn't crossed my mind to look for half siblings of his great grandfather, also a Vincenzo like his deceased father. I went through the online church records last night, and early this morning, and found that she had another 4 children with the second husband, three of whom died as infants-one even two days after her second husband died. So I'm elated to have this new info. Hopefully, at some point in the near future, everything will come together for you too.
Erudita

kencwalker
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Re: Father on birth record

Postby kencwalker » 02 Aug 2016, 01:51

Hi Erudita,
Glad my question tickled your curiosity and your research uncovered some new relationships. There's a certain fun surprise factor (for me) when I discover family I didn't know existed -- "hey, wow, look what I found".
I had that experience with my GG-GF Carlo. Initially I didn't even know his name. Then I found my 3rd cousin's tree, and she had a different mother for her G-GM Elisabetta than I had for my G-GF Carlo (her brother, the son of Carlo). Confusing. Eventually, I concluded the first mother died, my GG-GF remarried, and had more children. As a result, my G-GF is a half-brother to my cousin's G-GM. Who knew? And, I found another older half-brother that remained in Italy and wasn't on anyone's tree (or research radar). Unfortunately, all of these events are just 2-3 years before the LDS films. Makes me want to hop on a flight to Milan, drive to Cavaglio and look for them!!! (but not in August) :-)
Again, thanks,
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

erudita74
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Re: Father on birth record

Postby erudita74 » 02 Aug 2016, 12:03

Thank you too, Ken. I actually also found another son born to her and her third husband. I guess when you have some 18,000 individuals in your database, there's always the possibility that you've initially missed someone. I had been concentrating on her first husband's line and have that back into the mid 1600s. I agree that it would be a little hot to go to Cavaglio this time of year. Besides, I'm not sure you can accomplish that much by traveling directly to the town. But, then you never know. Maybe it should be on your bucket list for the future? At any rate, I would gather as much info as I could from the online records and sort everything out. Then, if you do get to the town, you could be in a better position to acquire additional info.
Erudita

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Re: Father on birth record

Postby kencwalker » 02 Aug 2016, 15:09

erudita74 wrote:I agree that it would be a little hot to go to Cavaglio this time of year. Besides, I'm not sure you can accomplish that much by traveling directly to the town. But, then you never know. Maybe it should be on your bucket list for the future? At any rate, I would gather as much info as I could from the online records and sort everything out. Then, if you do get to the town, you could be in a better position to acquire additional info

Hi Erudita,
My "not in August" comment isn't about the weather. Anywhere in Italy will be cooler than it is here (our August daily high in Dallas is 100F/38C). As I understand, Italians take holiday in August, and not much can be accomplished at government offices.
I'm hoping "someone" will eventually digitize pre-1866 (and church) records from Northern Italy. Eventually I will head to Cavaglio and Madesimo (or the Archivio di Stato for Novara and Sondrio) to search for records I don't find online. I also have distant family members in both towns to meet! Maybe I will learn enough Italian by then to talk to them.
I've collected every Cantoia birth, marriage and death record in Cavaglio from 1866-1908 from online sources. :-) Now, I just need to organize them, like a "comune family tree", but with gaps, missing, and conflicting info (like these second marriages).
Thanks for the encouragement!
-Ken
Researching surnames Pedroncelli and Pilatti in Sondrio; Cantoia in Novara; Penna in Asti.

erudita74
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Re: Father on birth record

Postby erudita74 » 02 Aug 2016, 22:31

Hi Ken
I forgot you're in Texas where it's really hot. Earlier I wasn't thinking about the Italian town halls and their vacations. Anyway, maybe there will be earlier online records for your towns at some point. You just have to keep checking. I have many towns in my ancestry and my husband's that are not online yet. Even though I rented those microfilms years ago, there seems to always be something new to find, as I've demonstrated to you over the last two days. Just never give up researching.
Erudita


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