2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

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Jen5525
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2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby Jen5525 » 02 Oct 2016, 04:21

Hi all,

I posted earlier about the death records for 2 siblings, Nunzio and Vincenzo Stella whose dates of death were May 1895 within days of one another. However, upon the great translation help on this site, it made me question Nunzio's date of birth. the record I had would have put him at 4 1/2 at his death, but the record indicated he was 2 years old. went back and searched the database on family search, and there are actually THREE Nunzio Stella's born to the same parents. One was born in 1890 and passed in December 1891 at 1 1/2 years of age. The second was born in July 1892 (so mom would have been pregnant with the 2nd when the 1st one passed. The second Nunzio passed in May of 1895 and was 2 years and 10 months. The third was born in April 1896 (and survived and moved to the US).

My first question is: was this a common practice to reuse a name this many times (surely after the 2nd child passed, one would imagine rethinking the name!).

Here are the 2 death records.

1891 death
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

1895 death

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

My second question is whether either record gives the mother Santa Colonna's age? I cannot seem to find a record that lists her age, making it difficult to estimate her date of birth.

thanks for any help you can provide

AngelaGrace56
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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 02 Oct 2016, 12:03

Jen5525 wrote:My first question is: was this a common practice to reuse a name this many times (surely after the 2nd child passed, one would imagine rethinking the name!).

Here are the 2 death records.

1891 death
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

1895 death

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

My second question is whether either record gives the mother Santa Colonna's age? I cannot seem to find a record that lists her age, making it difficult to estimate her date of birth.

thanks for any help you can provide


The answer to your first question is yes, it was common to reuse a child's name several times, especially if the child that had died had been a grandparent's name.

Your second question, no Santa's age is not mentioned in either of the records posted here. The father's age is usually always given but not always the mother's. I've located Vitantonio and Santa's 1876 marriage record and this gives Santa's age to be 18 so she was born circa 1858.

Marriage Record No 64: Vitantonio Stella and Santa Colonna
Altamura: 9 September 1876, 4.12 pm

Groom: Vitantonio Stella, single, 26 yo (circa 1850), scalpellino (stonemason), born and residing Altamura, son of Bartolomeo, and Angela Rotunno, both residing Altamura

Bride: Santa Colonna, single, 18 yo (circa 1858), cucitrice (seamstress), born and residing Altamura, daughter of deceased Michele who (had) resided in Altamura, and daughter of Chiara Calia.
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Their first son Bartolomeo, was born a year later. Not sure if you have his birth record:
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Here's an article about Italian naming traditions which you might like to read: http://www.italiangenealogy.com/article ... ifications

I'll leave you to look for Santa's birth record and let us know if you need any help.

Angela :)

Jen5525
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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby Jen5525 » 02 Oct 2016, 14:13

Angela, you have brought tears to my eyes! I have been searching for hours upon hours for any trace of Santa. You are absolutely amazing!!! thank you so much!
Jennifer

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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby Jen5525 » 02 Oct 2016, 14:16

and no...I didn't have bartolomeo's birth record, but did know he existed. all of Santa and Vitantonio's children's names (i believe) were listed in the family search index. My great grandfather was the second child born to them, Michele Stella. I have his birth record, but now I can hunt for Vitantonio and Santa!

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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby Jen5525 » 02 Oct 2016, 14:44

two more questions...am I reading Bartolomeo's birth record correctly? It looks like it indicates that he died in Altamura on 10-27-1965 on the stamp that is at the end of the record.

And is the notation in the margin on the left under his name a record of his marriage? It looks to me like it says he married Maria Filippa Clemente in 19 Aug 1899?

That's especially interesting since my grandfather Michele Stella (the next born in the family) married Pasqua Clemente (I do know that Clemente was a very common name though).

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2043445

AngelaGrace56
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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 02 Oct 2016, 21:17

Yes, absolutely correct on both counts - marriage and death info.

You'll be interest to know that Maria F Clemente's mother was Anna Maria Colonna, so that is another surname that repeats for you:

Marriage No 81: Bartolomeo Stella and Maria Filippa Clemente
Altamura: 19 August 1899, 10.30 am

Groom: Bartolomeo Stella, single, 22 yo, contadino, born and residing Altamura, son of Vitantonio and Santa Colonna, both residing Altamura.

Bride: Maria Filippa Clemente, single, 17 yo, contadina, born and residing Altamura, daughter of deceased Giuseppe who was a resident of Altamura, and of Anna Maria Colonna, residing in Altamura.

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Angela

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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby Jen5525 » 02 Oct 2016, 22:59

thanks so much Angela!!!! I do have quite a few names that repeat. Some seem especially common (like Colonna and Clemente); there are TONS of those in the town. I imagine many are cousins etc., but will be hard to keep them from getting mixed up. Some are less common (Stella and Signorella). Most of those are probably directly related to me I think. I'm only about 1 month into research on my tree...finding this site has been a blessing!

Pasqua Clemente was the daughter of Giuseppe Clemente and Maria Apollonia Signorella. Giuseppe Clemente was son of Michele Clemente and Angela Jurino (or perhaps Furino). So looks like it is not the same Giuseppe Clemente. My Giuseppe Clemente had children through 1905 and came to the US around 1910. :)

AngelaGrace56
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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 02 Oct 2016, 23:10

Cool! Going good. Have you located Santa's birth record? I just had a quick look because I thought, because of the way the indices are set up, it just might take a while for a newby to locate. If you haven't looked for it yet, I'll post and translate. Let me know. I'm just looking at it now.

Angela

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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby Jen5525 » 02 Oct 2016, 23:21

I've gone through the indices but haven't found Santa yet...I'm starting to get the hang of it, but I think it probably takes me 3 times longer than someone more experienced with it. I found a whole bunch of passenger slips for many of the family and also found out that several of Pasqua's siblings came to the US, as did her parents. Her parents and a younger brother wound up in Miami in the late 1920's/1930's. Coincidently, I've lived in Miami for over 20 years, and had absolutely no idea. As far as my father knew, Pasqua and Michele Stella were the only ones who came to the US. Until I found this site, though, I had no idea how to go about finding any of the Italian records. Ancestry doesn't have them and family search has relatively few of them. so happy to have joined this group!

AngelaGrace56
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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 02 Oct 2016, 23:39

Yes, it does initially take a while to work through the records, see how they are set up, decipher the script, etc, and can be extremely tiring as well. With Italian records, because they give so much information, you can go back far very quickly, but because of the duplication of both given names and surnames, you have to be really careful and make sure everything measures up, which is obviously what you are doing. :D Thanks for sharing some of your story here.

Birth No 538: Santa Colonna
Altamura: 17 November 1857, 3 pm
Appearing before the official was Teresa Direnzo, 46 yo, Ostetrice (midwife), living Altamura, Strada S. Leonardo, to present a baby girl who she reported was born on 16 November 1857, 3 pm, from Chiara Calia, living Altamura, Strada La Caggiano, 21 yo, and from Michele Colonna, husband of the same, 30 yo, zappatore (Digger/Hoer/Picker) (to me, growing up, "uno zappatore" was a person who digs), both living Altamura. The baby was given the name Santa.
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Angela

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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby Jen5525 » 02 Oct 2016, 23:57

wow you are so fast! I know one day I'll get there too. I really appreciate all your help :)

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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby Jen5525 » 03 Oct 2016, 00:11

Angela...there's some notations at the top. The first is her marriage to Vitantonio correct? Then there is a notation about Bartolomeo. I believe it says his date of death?

AngelaGrace56
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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby AngelaGrace56 » 03 Oct 2016, 01:54

Yes, absolutely correct, the notation at the top is referring to the 9 September 1876 marriage in Altamura of (Santa) Colonna, to Vitantonio Stella “son of Bartolomeo”, which I had located already, so that's why I didn't note it. The notation was made on 5 June 1882, Trani. Good spotting. There is no death mentioned.

Angela :)

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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby Jen5525 » 03 Oct 2016, 03:48

ah ok. thanks! I know some spanish, but really no italian. wasn't sure what the 5 June 1882 date was since it was so far after the marriage. thought maybe it referenced something to do with Bartolomeo. another question if you don't mind. having Santa's birth record from you, I wanted to see if I could find it on my own to maybe replicate the process so that I'd have a strategy for future record hunts. but, still couldn't find it on my own! How did you find it? I'm using the same site you linked to. I went to the birth indices for the year: http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... dice/1857/ and scrolled through the "C"s and didnt' find her. It's possible I missed her...if so, i'll hunt again :). but if you came across the record another way, I'd love to know the secret !!!!
thanks!
jennifer

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Re: 2nd different death records for child named Nunzio Stella

Postby Jen5525 » 03 Oct 2016, 03:52

so...I think I may have been hunting in Bari vs. Altamura. that could be the problem. But still would love to understand more about how to search more efficiently!


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