Traduccion de la Circular K28 al español

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Traduccion de la Circular K28 al español

Postby sozols » 13 Dec 2005, 02:46

Por favor, alguien puede traducirme al español la (famosa?) circular K28, en particular el punto donde se menciona el procedimiento a seguir?

Muchas gracias!

(como referencia, el link donde encontré la circular:
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/marcommerce/c ... _K28.1.htm
)
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Re: Traduccion de la Circular K28 al español

Postby suanj » 13 Dec 2005, 04:17

Hi the Circular was crossed.... that I know... however are not the traslation on line, but this topic is interesting:
-------------------------------
I'm an Argentinean citizen of Italian origin. I find myself already in Italy and I would like to begin the process of obtaining Italian citizenship. Can you give me some advice on how to begin?
Kind Sir, The minister of the Interior has issued a circular (23.12.2002 n. 28 ) for foreign citizens of Italian origin that return to Italy, with which the Minister instructs the Comuni to receive the declarations of Italian citizenship by descent, which is also the title and duration of the permesso di soggiorno. This disposition has important consequences for those that, without a permesso for reasons and duration other that tourism, have found themselves refused enrollment on the demographic records, and access to the procedure of recognition of Italian citizenship, by many Comuni. In these cases one has not been able to obtain a permesso di soggiorno for reasons of anticipated citizenship (permesso of long duration authorizing work, art. 11 dPR 394/99). So those that have not been able to obtain a permesso of another title have had to leave Italy or stay in the country on an irregular basis. The ministerial circular intends to make uniform the routines of the Comuni and level the road to the release of the permessi for reasons of anticipated citizenship. Therefore the Comuni:
1. will register the person as a resident,
2. will receive the declaration and the documents to begin the procedure of recognition of citizenship,
3. will release a statement that the procedure has begun, to be used for the release of the permesso di soggiorno (which must be requested at the Questura).
The permesso di soggiorno authorizes employment, inscription in the national health system, and is renewable as long as the procedure of recognition of citizenship is not terminated.

It's a pretty clunky translation, but I tried to keep things as literal as possible, considering the precise nature of these matters.

The circular mentioned can be found here - the full text (in Word format) can be obtained by clicking the link at the bottom of the page, with the words "Circolare 23-12-02". Frankly it doesn't seem to be saying much, except that permessi for anticipated citizenship can be given to foreigners in possession of permessi for other reasons.

Presidential decree number 394/1999 is cited in the article; the decree states that one of the reasons and durations that permessi di soggiorno may be released is "for acquisition of citizenship ... for the duration of the procedure of recognition."

I've heard passing statements for quite a while mentioning that this was possible, but never seen it laid out so cleanly before. I've seen it asserted on the message board that this was not possible, and I wanted to confirm that it is.

So you could get ALL your documents in order, as detailed on your Consulate's website, but instead of submitting to your consolate, go to Italy on a tourist visa, go to the Comune, and let them know that you are there to have your citizenship recognized. Then you'd have to get registered as a resident, get the letter from the comune saying you are in the process of having citizenship recognized, and get the permesso from the Questura with that letter. Then you'd have a permesso allowing you to work, and residency, with access to the health system, etc. etc. It sounds cumbersome, but it is possible.

Not that it's something I'm personally going to jump up to take advantage of. It seems that there could be too many issues with it; if your documents aren't all perfectly in order and the comune can't register you, you'll have to come back to the US to get everything fixed, or have someone else at home help you with it, etc. But for people who have everything in order but are waiting for an appointment with their consulate or something of that sort (I'm looking at the folks out there under the jurisdiction of San Francisco), or if the economy tanks here like it did in Argentina (not likely I know), this might end up being a viable possibility. I believe this circular was issued because a lot of Argentineans of Italian origin tried to go back to Italy after the collapse in Argentina, and it caused a lot of confusion.

I spent my afternoon checking this out, so I thought someone else might be interested to know that the possibility exists.


http://expattalk.com/groupee/forums/a/t ... 7550085353

-----------------------------
no traslation in Castellano, sorry... you can ask the law in your language in Italian consulate in Argentina...
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Re: Traduccion de la Circular K28 al español

Postby sozols » 13 Dec 2005, 18:05

Suanj:

Thanks a lot. I am in the same condition that you say at the end of the transcription ... I'm waiting for an appointment in Cordoba (Argentina) italian consulate, but they don't give anything since 3 years!!! ... and because I can't get to Italy, then I'm thinking do everything about the citizenship acquisition directly with the Comuni from here ; but I think that this is impossible ...

Thank you!

Regards

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Re: Traduccion de la Circular K28 al español

Postby suanj » 13 Dec 2005, 21:06

Hi:
about the circular k 28, I can say you that an foreign citizen but of italian origin:


-IF, NEVER AND NOBODY (of ancestors line) renegated the italian citizenship

-IF he can demonstrate this with official document and also with official italian translation

-IF he can demonstrate the italian origins:

If he have all foreign official civil records ( directly by foreign country)with official translation about the genealogic tree with head the first italian emigrated;

IF he have the official ( from Common directly)italian civil records about first italian emigrated and or also the relatives


-Well if the foreign citizen of italian origin wish the italian citizenship by "Circolare n. K. 28.1 - 8 aprile 1991 del Ministero dell'Interno", it have all this perfect documents, this person can be in Italy by tourist passport and to obtain the first 3 months as tourist, and in this 3 months, he ask to Major of to be enrolled in the civil registry of Common, because of italian origins...

the Major after the checking of all documents, can be to order the inscriptions in the civil registry of Common, but NOT, AGAIN NOT, THIS MEANS NOT ITALIAN CITIZENSHIP, because the Major it must ask to Italian Governement the italian citizenship for this person, already enrolled in civil registry and with all documents request from "Circolare n. K. 28.1 - 8 aprile 1991 del Ministero dell'Interno"....

The second step is more long, and can be more long of 3 months as tourist passport.... so many people in your same case that are in Italy for this cause, after the first step, they wait and wait and wait, and they, because TOURIST, cannot to job, and after the money finish, because in Italy are the EURO with different change, and the life is very hard and most expensive....
well this people are many problems for the house and for the food.. in this article, in italian language http://www.abuondiritto.it/dettagli.php?ID=4382


are wrote the problems for 100 and more persons waiting the italian citizenship... that they need of help by priest, bishop and volunteers for to food....
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