"C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

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"C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby jcsm400 » 10 Mar 2006, 04:24

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/6726 ... ord9gs.jpg


This is a 1752 death record from San Vitaliano, Italy for Onofrius Mautone.

Can anyone tell me what the "C.S.M.E (?)" means :?: :?:

If someone can translate the whole thing, I would be very grteful. Only been able to figure out date and names.

And if the above link doesn't work, you won't hear from me again, 'cause I'll have killed myself :!: Just kidding :!: Followed Maria's instructions to the letter :!: :?:

Many thanks,
jcsm
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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby wldspirit » 10 Mar 2006, 05:04

LOL.........Image shack takes awhile to get used to....we're not all
computer pro's like Maria..... :D
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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby mfjp » 10 Mar 2006, 10:52

This was a very small file to start out with (24k)...

I re created a link of your file at a much larger size... (using the shot you posted) but am not sure how it will view until I post!

A preferred size would be 1000k to view at ImageShack's best...

If you have a better file, email it to me and I will adjust it for you...

larger view

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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby jcsm400 » 10 Mar 2006, 13:03

Maria, I was going to ask, How do you know the size?, but figured that one out. This one shows size 821KB, so it should have been bigger.

I'll try to email it tomorrow, oops, later today, Friday.

Thanks,
jcsm
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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby suanj » 10 Mar 2006, 14:28

Frankly the writing is very hard for reading..... but what I can read about "C.S.M. E. " is that "S. M. E. = "Sancta Mater Ecclesia ( litterally Saint Church Mother) and shortly:
Onofrius Mautone ved.(widow of) Anna Janiro.......... (illegible) in (=in) C.S.M.E. ( C. Sancta Mater Ecclesia ) animum etc.... in domo propria;( litterally: it has rendered the spirit to God in own house= it is died in own house) ... also are wrote that "cujus corpus"( the late's body) is buried in the church of saint Giovanni Battista and the legal heir is.... ( a illegible name)... the act is made for a wedding in 18( it seems) August 1818..

Obviously this is what I can understand...

regards, suanj
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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby Incipit » 10 Mar 2006, 14:40

Hi all...

in CSME = in C(ommunione) S(anctae) M(atris) E(cclesiae)

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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby jcsm400 » 10 Mar 2006, 22:22

Hi suanj & Incipit,

Thanks so much for the translation. I agree, it is hard to read. Anna's last name on other documents is Savino., but I need to figure out who the legal heir was!

Many thanks, have a great day or evening & God Bless.

Gratefully yours,
jcsm (smile)
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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby suanj » 11 Mar 2006, 03:01

Hi jcsm , thanks for kind words, however in the link that I suggest you was the right abbreviation... I think that could be helpful for you in further searches! regards, suanj
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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby jcsm400 » 11 Mar 2006, 04:36

suanj,

My eyes must be getting older than I am! Missed C.S. M. E. @ abbreviation site. I did check there first, it's in "my favorites." I even tried printing the document for a reference @ FHC, but only prints sections and alignment is off.

What is really strange is the document says he is a widower of Anna "Janiro"/ Savino. Same marriage process papers provided her death record in 1764. Going to have to make sure I didn't read it wrong!

regards,
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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby jcsm400 » 11 Mar 2006, 13:13

Maria,


Oops! I forgot to send the document. Sorry! Do you think it still needs to be posted?????

Forgetful jcsm
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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby suanj » 11 Mar 2006, 13:36

jcsm400 wrote:suanj,

My eyes must be getting older than I am! Missed C.S. M. E. @ abbreviation site. I did check there first, it's in "my favorites." I even tried printing the document for a reference @ FHC, but only prints sections and alignment is off.

What is really strange is the document says he is a widower of Anna "Janiro"/ Savino. Same marriage process papers provided her death record in 1764. Going to have to make sure I didn't read it wrong!

regards,
jcsm

Hi,
about
is the document says he is a widower of Anna "Janiro"/ Savino.
I read so, but also is possible that I'm in error .. really no very good from reading the handwriting... regards, suanj
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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby jcsm400 » 11 Mar 2006, 22:34

Actually, I too thought that was what it said. The dates are clearly printed out, not just handwrtten, so I know that he died in 1752 & his wife died in 1764. Hopefully, someone else comes a long and can read it better!

Maria, Thanks so much for posting the larger image. We sure keep you busy with all our postings. You are a trooper. You are going to have to teach me how to do it sometime. I hate imposing on you all the time, but I will send this to you by email. Hopefully you can post a better image.

Many thanks everyone,

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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby mfjp » 12 Mar 2006, 00:13

jcsm400 wrote:
Maria, Thanks so much for posting the larger image. We sure keep you busy with all our postings. You are a trooper. You are going to have to teach me how to do it sometime. I hate imposing on you all the time, but I will send this to you by email. Hopefully you can post a better image.

Many thanks everyone,

jcsm


Hope to catch up (this and other posts) sometime this evening when all is quiet here (March break hysteria) ... hope you sent it to my email... I haven't even had time to check those yet either...

Haven't forgotten... just gotta run... someone's waiting for me to go out...

Maria :P
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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby jcsm400 » 12 Mar 2006, 12:28

Maria,
I got behind myself, but by now you should have email with document for posting.

A Million thanks,
jcsm
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Re: "C.S.M.E" - WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????

Postby Incipit » 15 Mar 2006, 05:41

Waiting the bigger image, i post my transcription:

Fidem facio ego subscriptus parochus populis ecclesiae Sancti Vitaliani
quod, perquisito uno ex libris mortuis, folio 29 recto, sic
adscriptum inveni: "Anno Domini 1752 die 4 menses maii
Onufrius Mantone vir Annae Savino uxoris suae, amis-
so in communione sanctae matris Ecclesiae, animam sua reddidit in domo
propria, cuius corpus eodem die sepultum est
in ecclesia sancti Ioannis Baptistae huius [...]"
Datum Sancti Vitaliani die 18 mensis augusti 1818
valeat pro matrimonio

Parochus Sancti Vitaliani Georgius Scala


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