Help Translating two Italian documents

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Re: Help Translating two Italian documents

Postby brujaojos » 17 Nov 2006, 20:56

jjk_16_21 wrote:The second document is of Tommaso Guarascio. It is suppose to be the birth act of him but it looks alot different. The white line between the two was that it was on different pages. Hope you can read them clear enough, it looks kinda hard. Thank you all!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b85/j ... rascio.jpg


Hi There,

You have two different documents for this birth act.

The top part is...

Birth Act #25
Tommaso Guarascio

In the year one thousand eight hundred seventy-four, of the day twenty-one, of the month of January, at the hour fourteen and the Official of Vital Records of the town of San Giovanni in Fiore, Province of Calabria and et, and the District of Cosenza, and before me, Pizza Paolo, Secretary of the town, delgated by the Mayor by the act of..........(rest is missing)


The second page is....
at the house of his own home, and he has declared to give to the name of Rosa.......

So these are two different Birth Acts.

Hope this helps,
Trish
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Re: Help Translating two Italian documents

Postby suanj » 18 Nov 2006, 11:49

suanj wrote:The year 1879(?) the day 22 of january month, to hours 21.00 in office of San Giovanni in Fiore, Calabria province..... in my presence PIZZI Paolo Common's secretary of same common, delegated by major with act of.... in the house of own residence in this Common in Contrada Vallone street, wich they give the first name of... Tommaso(?) this declaration is made in the presence of Luigi Tricarico late Giovanni of age 44 and of Francesco A.. late Luigi of age 38 both resident in this Common.. Given the reading of present act to declaring and withnesses they have signed also in function of declaring, having said that it is illeterate..

signature
------
suanj

Hi trish in fact the Tommaso first name left some perplexity me too, as in my translation... and could be Rosa in effect, because are wrote:" alla quale" as for female gender... otherwise it must wrote" al quale" for male gender... .. kisses, suanj
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Re: Help Translating two Italian documents

Postby brujaojos » 18 Nov 2006, 15:36

Hi Suanj,

When the the birth act was copied from the mircofilm, the second half of the birth act was copied incorrectly.

Therefore, per my opinion (remember, I do this research of these hard documents every day of the week), these are two different birth acts.

My suggestion is that the poster go back over the films and recopy the correct two pages for Tommaso.

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Re: Help Translating two Italian documents

Postby jjk_16_21 » 18 Nov 2006, 22:13

brujaojos wrote:Hi Suanj,

When the the birth act was copied from the mircofilm, the second half of the birth act was copied incorrectly.

Therefore, per my opinion (remember, I do this research of these hard documents every day of the week), these are two different birth acts.

My suggestion is that the poster go back over the films and recopy the correct two pages for Tommaso.

Smile for me! :)
Trish


I am going to do that next weekend. However, I don't see why there would be two different dates for Anna Maria's marriage? Can someone please explain?
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Re: Help Translating two Italian documents

Postby brujaojos » 18 Nov 2006, 22:44

jjk_16_21 wrote:However, I don't see why there would be two different dates for Anna Maria's marriage? Can someone please explain?


Hi There,

When you get the other Birth Act for Tommaso, let us know. I would love to see the whole thing.

Also, are you referring to the marriage date on the Birth Act that was listed? If so, the one marriage date is the original date that the marriage took place which is October 20, 189? (could be 1897 or 1893). It also looks like it was Mariage Act #117.

The other idate is when it was logged sent to the Province of Cosenza to be logged into their records. This date is March 26, 1902.

I hope this answers your questions.
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Re: Help Translating two Italian documents

Postby suanj » 19 Nov 2006, 14:32

I believe that the two different marriage date are because the first:
1-October 20 1897 was the civil marriage and after some month
2-February 24 1898 they married in the church..
just my opinion... in fact
the transcription, in the registry, it was for
- 1° date in September 18, 1901
and when back in the civil record office, the church act they transcripted in
- 2° date in March 26, 1902
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Re: Help Translating two Italian documents

Postby brujaojos » 19 Nov 2006, 18:27

Hi There,

I'm not here to argue with anyone, I'm just here to give my opinion from experience. Plus my other post, I was only referring to the handwritten notation on the dates, not all the dates. I wasn't sure which dates the poster was referring to.


My personal opinion is for you to order the microfilm for the dates mentioned in the Birth Act of Anna Maria in order to find out which date is the correct date of Marriage. This is the only way you will know for sure what the dates all mean.


The only dates we are definitely sure about is the one date of when the record was written in the Registry of Marriage of San Giovanni in Fiore. The other date is when it was sent to the Province of Cosenza. (Remember, that two documents were always written - one for the town itself, the other for the Province.)


Now the way I'm reading the document (and again, this is only my opinion), it could mean any of the following things:

1. The first date of marriage never took place, and the second date is the correct marriage date.

2. Like Suanj stated, one could be a Civil date and the other Church date.

3. The one date could be the date of Publication (Banns of Marriage) and the other the Marriage date.

Or

4. There was an error some where in the some other document and they were making the correction for the date of marriage in the bottom of the record (the handwritten information). There are too many words being used such as "legitimate child", and "conjoined (married) parents". Therefore, in my opinion they were trying to prove something and/or make some type of correction.

Therefore, I believe #4 is the reason for all the dates mentioned. However, no one will ever know the truth unless you get the actual record to see what date is correct.

I hope this helps,
Trish
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