Recently my grandfather has passed and I have been sorting through his old documents and found the following I think one is my grandmothers and grandfathers marriage certificate ? If someone could assist in translating this would be most appreciated
The other document is my grandfathers merchant seaman's papers. I am wondering if someone could also translate for me.
My questions are the following;
Is the change in surname common from Giormanni to Iurman common ?
I am confused as to locations listed in the seaman's papers - am I correct in assuming that valdarsa in Prov. Pola is listed as his birthplace. If so where is this ?
We have also recently discovered that my grandfather was a prisoner in Dachau Concentration Camp in his record there his birthplace was listed as Villanova, Prov. Pola. Are these two places the same ?
well the first document is a extract of marriage act( 904 number act) between JURMAN Giuseppe and SOSSI Giuseppina, in trieste town, the 25 June 1950....
the other image it are no available.. I cannot open it... abt Villanova(right: Villanova d'Arsa;Pola province) and Valdarsa( Pola province) they are 2 little villages far only 1 Km.. Valdarsa town was founded for to give a village to people of Istrian- Roumanian language in the area...(also in Villanova speaking the same language)...
From what you have said valdarsa and villanova are very close to each other - perhaps my granfather was born in valdarsa and moved to villanova. My granfather was born in 1923 during this time the entire region (Istria) was Italian now it is part of Croatia. My question is where would his birth records for villanova and valdarsa be located now and would they show italian citizenship ?
From your analysis my grandfathers mothers maiden name was Francesca Miclens (from trieste) and my Granfathers fathers name was Antonio Iurman ? This is very interesting !
I will attempt to trace things further back however I am wondering if there are any well known professional genealogy services that people could recommend to assist
Hi Trish, yes is Sassi the surname.. abt MICLENS the right spell is MICLEUS, family of Roumanian origin stated from long time in Villanova d'Arsa... abt the your ancestor birthtown discrepance, the explanation is that Valdarsa (SUSGNEVIZZA called in italian language until 1922 and ditto .. Å uÅ¡njevica called in local language) it was a village and no a Municipality until 1922... in the 1922 the town is Municipality with Valdarsa name... so, if your ancestor born in Valdarsa in the 1923, this is right... for italian citizenship no problem for you.... thank for to post newly the images.. now no caprices from imageshack and I read all very welll........ good new year, suanj
suanj wrote:Hi Trish, yes is Sassi the surname.. abt MICLENS the right spell is MICLEUS, family of Roumanian origin stated from long time in Villanova d'Arsa... abt the your ancestor birthtown discrepance, the explanation is that Valdarsa (SUSGNEVIZZA called in italian language until 1922 and ditto .. Å uÅ¡njevica called in local language) it was a village and no a Municipality until 1922... in the 1922 the town is Municipality with Valdarsa name... so, if your ancestor born in Valdarsa in the 1923, this is right... for italian citizenship no problem for you.... thank for to post newly the images.. now no caprices from imageshack and I read all very welll........ good new year, suanj
Thank you sanj
How would I go about getting Giuseppe Giormani (Iurman) birth certificate from Valdarsa (SUSGNEVIZZA) would the italian government have this. ?
11 Feb 1923
Villanova di Valdarsa
It have opted for italian citizenship conservation
Via Roiano 569
Giuseppina is/was ITALIAN citizen.. on the ID Card and on marriage act, her surname it seems SOSSI so until 8 aug 1950 they was italians... this ID CARDS are very importants for you...
the second is marriage's act made in the 25 oct 1950 of Giuseppe and Giuseppina, and are the data that you already know, and the date marriage:
-in Trieste the 25 june 1950 (number act: 904 of civil registries 1950 year, IIÂ° second part, A serie)...
Hi Trish, good new year!!!!!
Miclens don't exist and probally the surname is mistaken on the travel's manifest... also the Giuseppina mother surname is GherselLi... from what I know, with italian law nÂ°17 of 10 jan 1926, the istro-roumanian people could to italianizer the surname, and the JURMAN become: Giurman, Giormani, Donnani, Iurman, Yurman.... but this is no the Giuseppe Jurman case, because on the italian document of 1950 is always Jurman! great Giuseppe! many kisses, suanj
Suanj: Thanks for the information! I too saw Miclens and Micleus. Also, both surnames came to the USA from Trieste.
It's nice to work as a team! Trish
Here is the information on the mother's side from the cards you posted. Love the pictures!!!! You are so lucky to have found such records!
SURNAME:Sossi of Iurman (married to Iurman)
MOTHER: Maria Ghersele (Ghersel & Gherseli show up)
BIRTH: 8 September 1928 in Trieste
CIVIL STATUS: Married
ADDRESS: Roiano Verniclis 569
This is interesting as Giuseppe (grandfather) emigrated to Australia(not the USA) I believe that his brother(s)? emigrated to the USA. Guiseppe I believe went to the USA after staying in OZ for a little while then returned back to Australia to live permanently talk about moving around alot !
Basically the problem is that this town is no longer part of Italy therefore I am unsure where the records would have been kept - would have they been relocated back to Italy or are they still currently there.
My question is then;
1. Where would the records for the Italians that were born in istria when it was Italian be located ?
2. If the records have been lost / destroyed what options do I have re proving birth - would the identity card I posted early that I have from Trieste be sufficient as official proof ?
Hi jamerson, about Giuseppe birthact, all civil records of people born in a town, well they are always in the town, and the records don't change location if the town change the government, but the date of birth is a prof that the child is born in a town that in the date was under italian government, so the child it was a italian citizen for all effects, as you can read very well from Giuseppe ID card, he no renounced to italian citizenship... from my contacts I know that, currently, the old Valdarsa is a hamleth of the new town called RASA so you can contact the Town Hall and this is the phone number:
OPCINA (Common of)RASA tel. +38 552 874 239 best regards, suanj
jamerson, I contacted a Jurman descendant and she replied me, now i wait the right Villanova di Valdarsa address of Civil records office and as to make the request.. so I let you know the next reply... as you can see, I remember your search ! kisses, suanj
Have been tracing together the movements of Giuseppe however I need some help translating these details on his merchant marine papers - I believe that they are embarkation / disembarkation records ? an if i read them correctly he went from pola (pula) to trieste ? - however I don't see any ship name help !