Help with a few phrases in a death record

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Help with a few phrases in a death record

Postby dalbino83 » 19 Oct 2007, 13:22

I found my ggg-grandparents' 1856 processetti record last night. It had the death notices for my ggg-grandfather's father and grandfather in it. This is the 4g death notice:

Vincenzo's death record

What does the line about Gennaro Albino say? I see Gennaro's offspring in Campodipietra, but I haven't been able to link him up to my line. I'm hoping it says something like Gennaro is Vincenzo's brother.

Here is the 5g death notice:

Antonio's death record

Gennaro is one of the witnesses, I think it says, and on the same line as Gennaro's name in the previous record, I see Domenico in this record. This record photocopied better. Perhaps this one will be easier to decipher. Again, I haven't found a connection for Domenico in my line; does it say how Domenico is related to Antonio?

Many thanks!
Donna
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Re: Help with a few phrases in a death record

Postby suanj » 19 Oct 2007, 14:04

Francesco, Gennaro, Vincenzo ALBINO was brothers-cousins( the parents was cousins also, most probably) and Gennaro and Domenico ALBINO are the grandsons of Antonio, (second image), so the generations are :
1. Saverio
2. Antonio
3. Vincenzo, Francesco, Gennaro

first image:

... it is appeared Francesco Albino of age 42 agriculturist profession, of this Reign, domiciled in this Common, brother-cousin of defunct and Gennaro Albino of age 36(?) agriculturist profession also, of this Reign, domiciled in this Common brother-cousin of defunct , that declared me that in the day 31 of July month, current year, to hours 8.00 in the paternal house Vincenzo Albino husband/widow( illegible) of Maria Elisabetta Carlona, of age...8 ( 28? 38?), born in this Common, agriculturist profession, domiciled in this Common, son of Antonio ( living)proprietor profession, domiciled in this common and of late Martina Mancini(?) domiciled similarly here.... the relationship is wrote in the witnesses presentation, both are wrote fratello cugino( it is no helpful to write also cousin, but maybe the officer wanted be very precise...[hr]

so Francesco and Gennaro was brother of Vincenzo but they was also cousins of second level because, maybe, Antonio and Martina probably was cousin of first level.. no rare, very usual in the past time....

[hr]
abt the second image: I don't know if this Gennaro is the same Gennaro of first picture, the age match enough...

in the first picture Gennaro was brother of Francesco and Vincenzo and Vincenzo was son of Antonio, so all was sons of Antonio; in the second image it is wrote nipote, (grandson/nephew) and I don't know if it is the same Gennaro or another....
regards, suanj
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Re: Help with a few phrases in a death record

Postby Sirena » 20 Oct 2007, 00:03

I don't know if this applies to the Italians but I know that in Spanish cultures, if you call someone a "fratello cugino" it refers to cousins raised as brothers in the same household....for example one of the children's parents die and the child is brought into the household at a young age and raised by the aunt & uncle as though the child was their own.
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Re: Help with a few phrases in a death record

Postby dalbino83 » 20 Oct 2007, 05:02

Thank you, suanj! I have a couple of questions about your translation. The age after Vincenzo's name ... is that Vincenzo's age or Maria Elisabetta's age? I haven't been able to find anything that gives me Vincenzo's age yet. I believe it said 28, and this document is dated 1837, which means maybe I'll find his birth record in 1809, the first records on the microfilm.

Also, you said Francesco, Gennaro, and Vincenzo were brothers-cousins and Gennaro and Domenico are the grandsons of Antonio, but that is confusing to me when I look at their probable birth dates, calculated from the ages in these two documents:

1. Saverio
2. Antonio (1774)
3. Vincenzo (1809), Francesco (1795), Gennaro (1801)
4. Gennaro (1801), Domenico (1798)

It seems to me that Gennaro and Domenico are of the same generation as Vincenzo and Francesco, not grandchildren to Antonio.

What do you think?

Thanks,
Donna
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Re: Help with a few phrases in a death record

Postby suanj » 20 Oct 2007, 10:08

Vincenzo's age ... it seem 28; nothing abt maria elisabetta...
abt the other questions I cannot say.. because in Antonio death is wrote "nipote" now or grandson or nephew.. this family lineage is strange: fratello cugino and after nipote.... maybe better to see all microfilms and to make a right lineage, you can find the marriage acts( better the banns) of this persons so you can understand better from parent's name of grooms who are... regards, suanj
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